David Pocock (ACT, Independent) Share this | Hansard source

I accept that you are incredibly skilled at this. When you say that the commissioner has the ability to have a public hearing, yes, that is correct, but the parliament, as you've outlined, sets out the circumstances in which that may happen. Currently, we have a NACC where you have to meet an incredibly high bar. Numerous witnesses warned the committee that this will essentially mean that there are almost no circumstances that meet all of the criteria. Whilst it may be possible, the practical outcome is that it's very rare and very unlikely to happen. It seems to me that we actually need to be building up trust in our institutions, and I'm hearing from so many people I represent, who say, 'We want more transparency not less.'

What's the argument for this? I accept you say that you've struck the right balance, but why aren't we allowing the commissioner—if we trust them so much, and I think there should be a high level of trust in the commissioner—to have a neutral presumption and that it's totally up to the commissioner? If the commissioner thinks that this is in the public interest, then they can hold a public hearing. That to me aligns with the rhetoric I hear about trust in the NACC and the independence of the NACC. If we really believed that, we would say: 'We trust you. We believe we have put very good people in there who are well qualified to do that job, and it's up to you. If you think it's in the public interest to hold a public hearing, you do it.' But that's not what we've done. We've said: 'We trust you. We should be saying to Australians, "The NACC is doing important work," which we believe it is, but also, even if you think it's in the public interest, you have to also meet all these other criteria, including exceptional circumstances.'

I'm just interested why, on the one hand that you think they're independent, that we trust them and that it's up to them, but on the other hand that we're almost hamstringing them a bit? They're hamstrung to actually make a decision because they have to meet these criteria. Those things don't seem to square to me.