Steve Hutchins (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Vanstone, the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. Is the minister aware that in 2000, when allegations were raised that businesses were starting to bring in temporary overseas workers to meet skills shortages, the then minister for employment rejected those allegations? Didn’t the then employment minister, Peter Reith, not only downplay those claims but also state that the government was ‘seriously committed’ to increasing training opportunities to ensure we had the skills needed? Can the minister now explain why it is that, six years on, the skills shortage has worsened? Haven’t Peter Reith’s claims about the government’s serious commitment to training proved hollow, with 300,000 people being turned away from TAFE? And why is it that instead of maintaining its commitment to training locals to meet this shortage, the government is now encouraging employers to import skilled guest workers?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for his question. I cannot tell you what Mr Reith might have said in 2000. My memory is pretty good, but it is not that good. I may not have even focused on what it was that he said at that time.

Robert Ray (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you remember what you wrote to him about the campaign song back in 1989?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Good on you, Senator Ray. Through you, Mr President, if I may acknowledge that interjection, I am glad to see that Senator Ray is concentrating on what, in his mind, are the more important matters that are happening. The senator raises the question of training in Australia.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Interjections are disorderly.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The point I wanted to make, Mr President, is the same point I was making to Senator Wong, and it is not widely understood in Australia, and that is that during the recession that Labor said we had to have there was a desperate situation of businesses closing down and laying off people they could lay off. And who did get laid off? A lot of apprentices. In fact, a lot of the training money and apprenticeship money spent by the Labor government was for subsidies to keep apprentices on, because if they had not paid subsidies apprentices would have lost their jobs, and many of them did.

I thank the senator for reminding me of this. It will give me the opportunity to go back and check the Hansard that I have been looking at in the last couple of months to remind myself—and I may take the opportunity to come and remind the Senate—of the remarks made by Mr Beazley at the time acknowledging that when you so run an economy that you lead into the ‘recession we had to have’ and you have nearly a million Australians out of work, with some of the highest unemployment rates anyone in this chamber has ever seen, you necessarily change the focus of your training money. What it does not mention in theHansard are the very substantial cuts to training under Labor. I cannot imagine how Mr Beazley can stand up in front of the Australian media and say that he is going to train Australians and he is going to train them now when the last time he had the job that is not what he did.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order that goes to relevance, Mr President. The minister may be unable to find her brief but trying to reminisce about things she may have read or debates she may have had years ago is not the same as answering the question. I ask you to draw her attention to the question, which was about the government’s programs for skills shortages and what they are going to do to address those skills shortages.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has a minute and 45 seconds to complete her answer and I remind her of the question.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. I think that when the question of skills shortages is raised it is relevant to focus on why it is that now we have employers saying, ‘We cannot get people with 10 years experience to do this job.’ It is not true, as we all know, that if you come out with a trade training qualification or come out of a university you are ready to do the most serious jobs in whatever your faculty area is. It is simply not true. Experience is valued and we do have a shortage of people with 10 to 15 years experience. The senator also knows very well that TAFE is the responsibility of the states and territories. But as a matter of interest he might like to know that—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You’ve done nothing for 10 years, yet you say it is someone else’s fault.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator! The question was asked and the minister is trying to answer it despite the interjections from those people on my left. I ask you to come to order.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Senator, I am sure that you do understand that TAFE training is a responsibility for states and you probably also understand that under this government there has been an increase in the number of Australians in training by 141 per cent—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Rubbish!

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The senator interjects: ‘Rubbish.’

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is rubbish.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You see, the senator does not even want the answer, Mr President. We have encouraged quite dramatically vocational education in schools, providing $10.8 million over the next four years—the biggest commitment ever to vocational training by any government. We have increased New Apprenticeships and we are providing an additional 167,000 places over the 2005-08 period. It is very clear who cut training funding in Australia, and that is the previous Labor government. (Time expired)

Steve Hutchins (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Does the minister recall claiming that the use of skilled guest workers will avert a wages spiral and therefore keep interest rates down? Doesn’t this admission make it plain that the use of skilled guest workers is all about keeping the wages of Australians down? Doesn’t this current crisis, particularly in the trades, simply reflect the fact that for the last 10 years the government has not done enough to ensure we have the skilled local workforce we need?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is very clear, and acknowledged by the senator in his question, that there are areas where there is a skills shortage. I do not think that is denied even by the union movement. Australia is going gangbusters. As Senator Abetz has recently reminded us, we have the lowest unemployment that we have had in some 30 years. For skilled unemployment it is even lower than that. The average that Senator Abetz quotes is for both skilled and unskilled. The skilled unemployment level is down around two per cent. Clearly, we need to bring in skilled workers. Where we do not bring in skilled workers and a business could employ them, that business cannot grow and develop, it cannot make more money, and it does not keep Australian jobs secure.

Senator, I am happy to give you a briefing in relation to some of the companies that have been very direct with us about the consequences of them not being able to bring in additional workers. I will put you onto the meat factory in Western Australia that says that without the additional workers they could not run a second shift. What does that mean? That means that some extra Australians would not get jobs and the company would not be as secure. (Time expired)