Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

by leave—I move Greens’ amendments (1), (2) and (3) on sheet 4974:

(1)    Clause 2, page 1 (after line 8), at the end of the clause, add:

        (2)    Items 3 and 4 of Schedule 2 commence on 2 April 2007.

(2)    Schedule 2, page 27 (after line 10), at the end of the bill, add:

3 The whole of the Act

Repeal the Act.

(3)    Schedule 2, page 27 (after line 10), at the end of the bill, add:

Taxation Laws Amendment (Private Health Insurance) Act 1998

4 The whole of the Act

Repeal the Act.

I do not need to speak further to these amendments. They are to abolish the private health insurance rebate so that that money can be spent on ensuring that we have a quality public health system that all Australians can use.

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Aged Care, Disabilities and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Very briefly, Labor will not be supporting the proposal from the Greens. It is interesting to see that Senator Santoro at this time of night is harking back to the old, untrue, insightful proposal that Labor will abolish the private health insurance rebate. We are here voting against this proposal, Senator. Just stop the rubbish.

Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I want to make a comment as well about one of the minister’s remarks: that those opposed to this bill or to private health insurance are somehow reflecting the politics of envy. I am not sure whether this offends against standing orders but it certainly offends against me. I think there are perfectly logical arguments to be put, and they are being put. They were by Senator Nettle and I have certainly done so in this place. It has got nothing to do with politics of envy of people who can afford or choose private health insurance. It has got nothing to do with that and I object to the minister saying so.

Santo Santoro (Queensland, Liberal Party, Minister for Ageing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If I have caused offence to Senator Allison—I had not heard her speak in relation to the matter that Senator Nettle spoke about—I apologise to her. Having listened to the speech of Senator Nettle, I stand by my remarks. It came across to me as being very much motivated by the politics of envy. As far as I am concerned I stand by those remarks. In terms of the remarks by Senator McLucas, I did not have an indication whether the Labor Party would be supporting Senator Nettle’s amendments. I am glad that you have placed on record your intention to vote against them and I am grateful for that support.

Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I proudly stand here for the fairness, the equity and the justice that is inherent in these amendments which make sure public funds are spent on public services.

Question put:

That the amendments (Senator Nettle’s) be agreed to.

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Aged Care, Disabilities and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

by leave—I move opposition amendments (1) to (8) on sheet 4989:

(1)    Schedule 1, page 6 (after line 7), after item 11, insert:

11A After paragraph 82ZRC(b)

Insert:

           (bb)    to refer matters to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission or to other bodies for inquiry;

(2)   Schedule 1, page 16 (after line 16), after item 70, insert:

70A of Part VIC (heading) of Division 4

Repeal the heading, substitute:

Division 4—Health Insurance Commission may conduct investigations, refer matters to ACCC or other bodies

(3)   Schedule 1, page 21 (after line 32), after item 82, insert:

82A After section 82ZTBB

Insert:

82ZTBC Health Insurance Ombudsman may refer matters to Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

                 The Health Insurance Ombudsman may on his or her own initiative refer by notice in writing a specified matter or specified matters concerning charges by health care providers to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for inquiry and report.

(4)   Schedule 1, page 21 (after line 32), after item 82, insert:

82B After section 82ZTBB

Insert:

82ZTBD Minister may refer matters to Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

                 The Minister may refer by notice in writing a specified matter or specified matters concerning charges by health care providers to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for inquiry and report.

(5)   Schedule 1, page 21 (after line 32), after item 82, insert:

82C After section 82ZTBB

Insert:

82ZTBE Health Insurance Ombudsman may refer matter to other body

                 If, in the Health Insurance Ombudsman’s opinion, it is more appropriate for a specified matter or specified matters concerning charges by health care providers to be referred to a body other than the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the Health Insurance Ombudsman may refer by notice in writing, that specified matter or those specified matter to that other body for inquiry and report.

(6)   Schedule 1, page 21 (after line 32), after item 82, insert:

82D After section 82ZTBB

Insert:

82ZTBF Minister may refer matters to other body

                 If, in the Minister’s opinion, it is more appropriate for a specified matter or specified matters concerning charges by health care providers to be referred to a body other than the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the Minister may refer by notice in writing that specified matter or those specified matters to that other body for inquiry and report.

(7)   Schedule 1, page 21 (after line 32), after item 82, insert:

82E After section 82ZTBB

Insert:

82ZTBG Inquiries by other bodies

             (1)    If a specified matter is, or specified matters are, referred to another body under section 82ZTBE or 82ZTBF, the other body must, if it agrees to hold the inquiry, appoint by instrument in writing a person to preside at the inquiry.

             (2)    If the other body is a group of two or more individuals, the Minister must by instrument in writing appoint one of those individuals to preside at the inquiry.

             (3)    The Minister must, as soon as practicable after confirmation that the other body will hold the inquiry, cause a statement to be tabled in each House of the Parliament specifying that the body will hold the inquiry, and giving the reasons the body, rather than the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, has been requested to hold the inquiry.

(8)   Page 27 (after line 10), at the end of the bill, add:

Schedule 3—Amendment of the Trade Practices Act 1974

1 After subsection 95C(1)

Insert:

                 (1A) This Part also applies to an inquiry concerning a specified matter or specified matters referred to the Commission under section 82ZTBC or 82ZTBD of the Health Insurance Act 1953.

2 At the end of section 95E

Add “and to protect consumers by holding inquiries referred to it under section 82ZTBC or 82ZTBD of the Health Insurance Act 1953”.

3 After subsection 95G(3)

Insert:

                 (3A) The Commission must hold such inquiries as are referred to it under section 82ZTBC or 82ZTBD of the Health Insurance Act 1953.

This group of eight amendments that Labor is moving seek to extend the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to a broader set of powers than those proposed in the legislation. The first amendment enables the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to refer matters to the ACCC. The second amendment allows the minister to refer matters to the ACCC. The third amendment allows a matter to be referred—

Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Chairman, I rise on a point of order. I cannot hear a thing because there are about 15 conversations going on behind me. If you would not mind drawing attention to that.

John Hogg (Queensland, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Boswell and Senator Scullion, take your conversations outside, please. Senator Allison is entitled to hear this debate.

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Aged Care, Disabilities and Carers) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The proposal of the Labor Party is to extend the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman even further than what is proposed in the legislation. The amendments allow the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to refer all matters related to issues within his or her scope. The first amendment suggests that the PHIO can refer matters to the ACCC. The second amendment allows the minister to refer matters to the ACCC. The fifth amendment allows the PHIO to refer a matter to another body. The sixth one allows the minister to refer, if appropriate, a matter to another body.

For this amendment to take effect there also must be an amendment to the Trade Practices Act and in particular to part VIIA, the prices surveillance section of the act. Part VIIA of the TPA allows for price inquiries, price notifications and price monitoring. However, the amendment we are seeking relates only to the ACCC powers to hold and report on inquiries—that is, we are not proposing that the private health insurance market be subject to price notification.

The amendments also will allow the minister to direct the ACCC to hold an inquiry into specified matters and report its finding to the minister, who then can make decisions on its recommendations. Companies are liable to a maximum penalty of 100 penalty points if they increase prices during an inquiry without approval from the ACCC.

Public inquiries initiated under the PSA have been used for a number of purposes in the past, including to determine whether pricing outcomes reflect competitive market forces, to advise the minister on what types of prices oversight, if any, should be applied to the company or companies under inquiry and to play an educative role by bringing information into the public domain, thereby facilitating public understanding of the pricing matters at issue. These amendments, I think, extend the scope of the bill in question. In Labor’s view they will give far more consumer protection, using the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman’s role, than envisaged by the government.

Santo Santoro (Queensland, Liberal Party, Minister for Ageing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government has considered very seriously the opposition amendments to this bill. However, it cannot support the opposition’s amendments for a number of reasons. Firstly, the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman already has the power, with the complainant’s agreement, to refer a matter to the ACCC or another body if, in the PHIO’s opinion, it could be more effectively dealt with by the ACCC or another body. Also, the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman is already required to consult with the ACCC in relation to restrictive trade practice matters. The opposition’s amendments do not enable the ombudsman to provide more effective consumer protection beyond the measures contained in the bill before the Senate tonight.

Secondly, there is some doubt about whether a constitutional basis exists to allow the ombudsman or the minister to refer, and the ACCC or other body to inquire into, health care provider charges. This is because the ACCC’s prices surveillance role relies mainly on the corporations power, and specific provisions in the trade practices legislation expressly limit the ACCC’s powers to ensure that it remains within its constitutional limits.

Lastly, and most importantly, the ACCC already has a role, under the trade practices legislation, in relation to misleading pricing, price fixing and price surveillance. However, the ACCC is not a price-setting body for retail goods and services. As the health industry is characterised by a large number of participants, monitoring would be extremely costly and is unlikely to be warranted on the grounds of competition. The proposed amendments could lead to increased charges to the consumers of health care provider services. For the above reasons, we cannot support the amendments that have been moved.

Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Democrats will be supporting these amendments. We think they are a good way of strengthening the bill and will add to accountability.

Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Greens also will be supporting these amendments.

Question negatived.

Bill agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.