Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is directed to Senator Vanstone, the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. Can the minister confirm that under the current 457 visa program employers are under no obligation to offer positions to Australians before employing a temporary foreign worker? Doesn’t this mean that any employer can now look overseas for a temporary worker for any of the hundreds of classifications listed as ‘skilled’ under the regulations, even when there are unemployed Australians with the necessary skills available? Isn’t the 457 visa program no longer about filling skills shortages and all about opening up another source of labour? Did the minister effectively admit this in June when she conceded that the reason why we needed the increasing number of temporary foreign workers was to keep the wages of Australians down?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for the question. I do regret, however, the consistent reference by members of the opposition to temporary ‘foreign’ workers. ‘Foreign’ was never a pejorative in Australia but it has started to become one as a consequence of contributions made by the—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy! I heard what you said. Withdraw.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We used to and we try to use the terminology of ‘skilled migrants’ and ‘temporary skilled migrants’ because we are a migration country. ‘Foreign worker’ is becoming a pejorative that the Labor Party is particularly keen on pushing. For those interested in this point about temporary foreign workers, I encourage them to go to the House of Representatives Hansard and see one of Mr Beazley’s contributions on this point. Mr Beazley actually said that Australian parents were right to be frightened about their children being humiliated and their children being displaced by foreign workers coming to Australia who would work for almost nothing.

In the 21 years I have been in politics, and it is a long time, I have never heard a politician, let alone a would-be Prime Minister, say to Australian families: ‘Watch out for your kids—they’re coming to get them! And it’s the foreign people that are coming.’

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Read the speech—it’s a fabulous read! But, guess what? It is not just any foreigners. Oh, no! Not the people from Bristol and Birmingham and Blackpool. It is the people from Beijing and Bombay and Beirut that we need to look at. And because Mr Beazley is not prepared to say that is what he means, what he says is ‘people from low-income countries’. That is the euphemism that is used. Then a press release is put out, just in case we were not sure which low-income countries we were talking about. So I do not welcome that part of the question.

The senator does not seem to appreciate the cost of bringing people into Australia. People do not want to bring foreign people from overseas into Australia at their expense unless they need them. It is just as simple as that.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I again remind the minister, and perhaps in response to the supplementary she could answer, that the primary question was about the fact that the government has removed the requirement that any positions be offered to Australians before employing someone under a 457 visa. I also ask the minister: hasn’t the removal of any requirement to offer such positions to Australians simply opened up the program to rorting by unscrupulous employers? Can she confirm that employers have complained to her department about competitors using the 457 program to gain an advantage by employing temporary foreign workers on wages well below current market rates? Can she explain why the Howard government believes qualified Australians should be bypassed by employers looking to undercut wages?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I must say that historically this is an interesting proposition, that a party that has in the past been so attracted to the union movement and said the market cannot possibly work now realises that under a Liberal government the market actually works very well and workers are doing very well.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong interjecting—

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is why, of course, they are walking away from the union movement—because the market is working very well, and workers are actually getting more.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order. How can the minister’s answer possibly be relevant under the standing orders to the question which was asked? The question was quite clear: in relation to the use of this program by unscrupulous employers to undercut wages and conditions.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Vanstone, you have 37 seconds.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, the good senator knows full well that people cannot come in on this visa unless they pay the award rate or the minimum salary level, whichever is the higher.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Chris Evans interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong interjecting—

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She should understand that. I am sure the senator does. The confected rage and condescension suit you, Senator. It might fit your personality but it does not frighten me, Senator, so save it for someone else.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I remind those senators asking questions that at least they should give the minister the opportunity to answer the questions. Continued interruptions are disorderly, and if they continue I will take action.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. While you are ruling on behaviour in the chamber I might draw your attention to the fact that the minister was directly addressing and abusing the questioner. I draw your attention to that behaviour while you are seeking to enforce standards in this place.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It does not make any difference to what I said, Senator. I try to take note of everything that happens in the chamber. During that last supplementary answer both you and Senator Wong continued to shout across the chamber, and that invites reaction from the person who is answering the question.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. While I appreciate your commentary on our behaviour, I draw your attention to the behaviour of Senator Vanstone: not speaking through the chair but actually addressing the senator and seeking to abuse the senator. I draw your attention to that and ask that you enforce the standards of the Senate.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We all know that interjections are disorderly and we all know that senators should make their remarks through the chair. I remind everybody of that.