Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (Senator Vanstone) to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today relating to the 457 visa program.

Today the minister was asked a great number of questions in relation to the government’s 457 visa, which is the visa the government says it has as a result of the skills shortages. It is a visa that is supposed to be about skilled workers and filling vacancies that cannot be filled by Australians. What we know from the minister’s answers, from her public statements and from her failure to answer a number of questions is that there is a vast gap between the government’s rhetoric—

John Hogg (Queensland, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, resume your seat. There is too much noise in the chamber. Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, there is a vast gap between the government’s rhetoric about this being only about skilled migrants for areas in which there are skills shortages and the reality of what is happening on the ground. We already know—and the minister referred to it in her answer—that in the meat industry there have been a great many allegations about the misuse of this visa: suggestions that the visa is being used for classifications that it should not be used for and suggestions that people are being underpaid. In fact, the minister has had to ensure that her department investigated one particular company in South Australia, and we note that it has taken her department five months to do that. What we do not know is what has not hit the media and how often the sorts of abuses and misuses of this visa class which have been indicated by the media as occurring in the meat industry have occurred in other areas.

Senator Vanstone was also asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate why it was that there were so many visas granted to persons working in occupations which were not on the list of skills shortages. The figures identified by Senator Evans included 43 waiters, 77 domestic housekeepers, 251 personal assistants and 1,594 elementary clerical workers. None of the occupations listed are on the list of skills shortages prepared by the department. I understand that the minister has taken some of the aspects of that question on notice, and I look forward to an indication as to why it is that there should be any visas in this category granted to persons with skills not on the skills shortage list if the justification for the granting of these visas is that the positions are not able to be filled by local workers.

The minister was also asked why it was that, of the some 50,000 people who entered Australia on this visa class last year, so few of the visas were issued in respect of occupations in which we do know there is a skills shortage in this country. That is largely, I hasten to add, as a result of this government’s failure to train Australians in its 10 long years in office. The sum total that we have been given is that , of those 50,000 people who entered Australia last year, there were 107 carpenters, 31 bricklayers, 25 plumbers and 13 plasterers. What comes to mind when you look at these figures is: why is it that occupations that are not listed on the department’s skills shortage list should be the subject of a 457 visa category? It is a very important policy question and, as yet, we are still waiting for an answer from Senator Vanstone about this issue.

There was another interesting figure that Senator Evans quoted—that is, that nine 457 visas were issued to panelbeaters. We know there is a bit of a skills shortage in Australia, but 25 visas were issued to caravan and camping ground workers. I do not know what other senators believe, but I certainly have not been inundated with constituents telling me that there is a skills shortage in the caravan and camping ground industry. One of the points that the minister has simply failed to properly address is the lack of a proper compliance system in relation to this visa category and the fact that there is no obligation on an employer who seeks to engage a person through the 457 visa program to offer the position to an Australian worker before employing a temporary foreign worker.

The reality is that, even with the official unemployment rate being where it is, we have over two million Australians in this country who are officially unemployed, underemployed or only marginally attached to the labour force. We have millions of Australian workers who would be able to fill skills categories if they were given the opportunity and the support from this government to ensure that they had the skills to do those jobs. But this government is not interested in training Australians. It has demonstrated a complete lack of political and policy leadership over the last 10 years, including by this minister who, as I recall, in her term as minister in the portfolio actually reduced the percentage of funding of training and education in the 1996-97 budget. We are reaping what we sow. There are at least two million Australians who could potentially gain the skills to fill many of these areas. Instead, we have a government that is intent on bringing foreign workers into Australia. (Time expired)

Alan Ferguson (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

One of the problems that we did not have when Labor was in power was the problem of 457 visas. One of the reasons that we did not have that problem was that, when the previous Labor government was in power, the economy was so shot to pieces that 11 per cent of Australians could not get a job at all. Under this government, because we have provided such a buoyant economy and we have reached the stage now where the unemployment levels in Australia are as low as they have been for 30 years, we have the problem that we have a lack of skills in some areas.

That was a never a problem for the Labor Party. They always made sure that there was plenty of unemployment. There were always plenty of skilled workers to fill the jobs that were available, because they ran the economy so poorly that there were always job vacancies and there were more skilled workers looking for jobs than there were jobs available. With the about-face, with the change that we have under the current government with the economy as it is, we have now had to introduce visas such as the 457 visa to try and fill some of the skills shortages that appear in certain industries—and they only appear in certain industries and there are specified skills.

I note that Senator Wong made a great deal of play about the meat industry and the workers under 457 visas who have come to South Australia, in particular. It is my home state—as it is for my colleagues Senators Bernardi, Chapman and Ferris, who are all in the chamber. There were tremendous skills shortages in the meatworker industry, and the 457 visas that have been introduced have helped us to fill those shortages. There have been complaints over a period of time about the wages and conditions and about the definitions of skills in that industry. There has been a problem in how skills in the meat industry are classified. Those problems have been brought about because the ABS and the department classify boners and slicers as unskilled, whereas the meat industry training authority classifies them as skilled.

Who is right and who is wrong? That is yet to be determined. But the confusion that existed because of the classification meant that these workers came in to fill those positions that could not be filled in Australia. The people who owned the meat companies and the abattoirs that were desperately short of employees got these people in to fill those places. The debate then started about which skill satisfied which criteria—do we take the ABS and the department’s view or classification, or do we take the meat industry training authority’s classification? If people working under 457 visas were shifted out of their boner and slicer positions it would have serious implications for the jobs of many Australians, including those who are employed by this particular company throughout Australia. So the department has worked closely with the South Australian government to identify a resolution to this issue.

This would not be a problem except for the fact that this government has run such a successful economy. That is a point that should be driven home at every opportunity. Those on the other side of this chamber complain because, as a government, we have decided to introduce a class of visa that provides for people from another country to come and work to meet the shortages that cannot be met within Australia. On the other side of this chamber they complain bitterly because we are providing jobs for those people. It has filled a need within the industry that could not be filled anywhere else.

As the minister, Senator Vanstone, said in her answers today, 457 visas have been a tremendous success. Yet there is criticism from the other side of the chamber about the use of 457 visas to fill a need that has been created because of the buoyant economy. In the past, under Labor, people with other skills would have taken those jobs, because with 11 per cent unemployment they would do anything to get a job. They are now being employed elsewhere because of this government’s successes. Rather than making the noises that we hear coming from the other side, the opposition ought to reflect on the work that is being provided under 457 visas. (Time expired)

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Sport and Recreation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

To follow on from the senator opposite, what he says does not make sense if you take into account the fact that 2,000 IT graduates cannot find work because they have been displaced by workers on 457 visas. The IT industry represents a very good example of where this system is failing, because it is not an industry whose employment standards have been based on awards traditionally; a lot of it has been done by independent contractors anyway. Therefore, it is highly susceptible to skilled migrant workers coming in on 457 visas and undercutting what is the going market rate for independent contractors in IT. When you look at what is going on in the IT industry, the government’s whole argument falls apart—that is, that these visas are only being used to fill the massive skills gap that they created.

Let us look at the link between the skills gap and the government’s policy. There is no doubt that the reason that so many skills gaps have been created is that the government, in stark contrast to all the other OECD governments, have actually reduced the investment in skills and education development in Australia over the last 10 years. Where everyone else is growing it, they are reducing it. That is absolutely ridiculous in a modern economy. I hear bleating from senators across the chamber that the skills shortage is a sign of the good economy. The skills shortage exists because there has been such poor investment in skills development in these areas over the last 10 years. That is what created the gaps in the first place.

There is a more sinister motivation for the government’s handling of 457 visas. It appears to be directly linked to what Minister Vanstone has put on record now—that is, that it is about keeping wages low. It is impossible to provide a fair assessment of what is going on with the 457 visa scheme without also taking into account the government’s aspiration to push wages lower, through their extreme industrial relations agenda. That is really the untold story, the part of the story that the minister forgets to speak of when she answers the opposition’s questions. What is going on here is the potential for not just the displacement of local skilled workers—and we know there is the potential for that because of what has happened in the IT industry—but also the exploitation of skilled migrant workers coming to Australia. We know, because of what has happened in Canberra restaurants, that that potential is real. The government have been caught on the back foot, well and truly, because the exploitation of skilled workers has been exposed.

When Labor asks questions about the level of wages and the fear of displacement, it is about protecting the interests of Australian workers, yes, but also of migrant workers. What right do the government have to create a scheme that allows these people to come here and be exploited by Australian employers? We can look at the legislative program of the government to see that they have acted very quickly to try to shore up the massive gaps that have appeared in this scheme, including introducing penalties for employers for the first time ever. Let us get this clear: under the Migration Act there was no penalty on employers who breached the conditions of the 457 visa. There was no penalty whatsoever, except that they were not allowed to do it again. It seems to me that the Howard government are trying to move to beef that up a bit to try to preserve their reputation. There has been such poor management of the 457 visa scheme that employers have been able to exploit it to underpay migrant workers. That is unacceptable.

True to form, the minister marched in here the other day and said that they have uncovered, through the investigations into migrant workers, the fact that local workers have been underpaid as well. I presume there are now cases being prepared for prosecution, and penalties will apply and moneys will be owed. The minister does not mention that all those cases date from a time when the award system was still in place. This minister fails to mention that the government’s whole defence about maintaining the system falls apart if you apply Work Choices legislation. The fact that Work Choices destroys the award system means that they are destroying any sound basis for a skilled migration program to work effectively—one where migrant workers are not exploited and Australian workers are not unfairly displaced by people on lower wages. Let us state the facts: the government need to come clean and fess up that they have handled it badly. (Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is interesting to listen to Senator Lundy talk about the exploitation of migrant workers or, as Mr Beazley describes them, foreign workers. It reminds me of a time that I think we all would rather forget, when xenophobic philosophies were being bandied around in the Australian political system. Unfortunately, it appears that that time is upon us again. I remind Senator Lundy that in May 2002, in a talk to Labor for Refugees, she said that it was ‘inconceivable’ that people were ‘willing to exploit the most base, racist of instincts’. And yet now we have the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Beazley, doing exactly that. He is on the record as saying:

… the only skilled migrants who should be coming into this country should be people who are coming in here for the full experience …

And yet he opposes 457 visas, despite the fact that over 87 per cent of 457 visa holders apply for permanent residence in this country. The minister is on the record as saying that the average salary of a 457 worker is $65,000 per annum. Ninety-three per cent of 457 visa holders surveyed by leading academics—who, incidentally, support the 457 visa program—are in professional or associate professional jobs or in skilled trades.

In my state of South Australia, as Senator Ferguson talked about before, the skilled migrant visa is absolutely in demand. It is not in demand from business only; it is in demand from the South Australian government. In fact, the South Australian government has more than quadrupled its state-sponsored skilled migration intake. The New South Wales Department of Health, of course, is the largest single sponsor of temporary 457 visas.

What I find really quite disturbing is the fact that the union movement are seeking to use 457 visas but also looking to do deals to undercut the wages of the people coming in. An article in the Australian of Friday, 20 January 2006, says:

The Australian Manufacturing and Workers Union and Australian Workers Union are in—

negotiation with a labour hire company—

to bring an initial batch of up to 400 skilled migrants from Southeast Asia …

The report says the workers would be offered a special pay proposal. It says that these workers would be offered by the union movement half the salary of an Australian worker and the other half of the salary would go into a union controlled trust fund. ‘Trust fund’ is the term that is used here; I would use the term ‘slush fund’. It does not say in the quote I have here, as far as I can see, exactly what it is going to be used for, but nonetheless this is of great concern. It seems that it is okay to try and underpay the workers if the union can control the rest of the money. I find that quite reprehensible—if it is true, I might add. I cannot rely on every media report, but nonetheless there it is. Mr Beazley is on the record as saying in 1998:

… a migrant finding a job in Australia, as we all know, creates jobs elsewhere in the economy …

In the town of Murray Bridge in South Australia, that is precisely what happened. No-one complained when New Zealand workers were coming in to fill the requirements of T&R Pastoral and the abattoir jobs that Australians were not willing to fill. But, when we could no longer attract more migrants or trained professionals from New Zealand, we brought in some workers from China on 457 visas.

Let me tell you the difference that made to the Murray Bridge economy, a small regional economy. They sold out of bicycles. The bicycle shop virtually had to shut its doors. It had no more bicycles available because the workers bought bicycles. They sold out of white goods because the demand for white goods in rental properties was truly extraordinary. These people have settled into that regional economy, their children now go to schools there, they are learning English and they are making a great contribution to our society in South Australia. But do not take my word for it, because the Western Australian minister Tony McRae— (Time expired)

Anne McEwen (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to take note of answers given by Minister Vanstone, the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, to the numerous questions asked of her today about the use and misuse of 457 visas—a whole lot of answers which again clearly demonstrated that the government has watched over an explosion in the number of people being brought into this country to work while at the same time it has overseen the vandalisation of our education system, a system that has been so neglected it has failed to deliver the skilled workers we need in Australia. The minister huffs and puffs and carries on with breathtaking hypocrisy about xenophobia, but she cannot hide the facts that, under 10 years of this government, 270,000 people have been brought into this country to work and 300,000 people have been turned away from TAFE colleges. Just today we saw in the paper that university degrees are now costing somewhere in the order of $200,000, despite the Prime Minister’s promise that he would not allow the cost of degrees to rise to $100,000. What a great way for our young people to start their working career: with a university HECS debt as big as their mortgage—if they can afford a mortgage.

And I have to ask: how are those Australian technical colleges going? I drove past one proposed site for an ATC—which, coincidentally, was in the marginal Liberal seat of Kingston in my state—on the weekend, and it looked pretty empty to me. In fact, it was so empty that it did not have any windows or doors; it was just an empty shell of a building with a nice sign out the front. But you can bet your last dollar, Mr Deputy President, that that ATC will be up and running some time before the next federal election, and no doubt it will be opened with a lot of fanfare by the Prime Minister and the member for Kingston. I bet that will be a priority for the government—but clearly the skills shortages in Australia are not, and addressing them by improving funding to our education system is not.

I do not think the misuse and abuse of the 457 visa system is a priority for the government either. We have heard that demonstrated today in the answer to my question about the investigation by the department of T&R Pastoral. Five months later, we are still waiting for a report. Five months later—when the minister promised us that this was an urgent matter and that she was going to investigate it and have something done about it—we are still waiting for a report.

We also heard answers today in response to facts that we discovered on the departmental website about the so-called skilled people being brought into this country to do jobs: waiters, domestic housekeepers and sales assistants, 2,720 elementary clerical workers over last three years and, of course, the infamous 25 caravan park attendants. Forgive me, I have spent a lot of time in caravan parks; I holiday in them often but, with due respect to caravan park attendants, I do not know what particular skills they have that need us to import these kinds of workers from overseas. How do we really know if we need to import caravan park attendants or those with any other kind of occupation when employers are not required to first demonstrate that they have sought to fill those positions with local workers?

What about our responsibilities to those people who come here under the 457 visa program? What responsibilities do the government have to ensure those people are not exploited by unscrupulous employers? They do nothing until the Labor Party and the unions raise all these issues of exploitation. It was the Labor Party and the unions who raised the issue of exploitation of Canberra workers. It was the Labor Party and the unions who raised the issue of exploitation of people in South Australia. But it was the minister herself who confirmed that the 457 visa program could be used for exploitation of workers when she infamously said:

… it opens up the industry to other pools of employees, which undermines the unions’ ability to exploit high wages amid the skills shortage …

She actually admitted it. She admitted that the visa program can be used to drive down wages, to keep wages low in this country, to turn us into another America, to turn us into another country of low-wage workers. She has not denied it and she did not deny it today. All we get from this minister is more bluster and bluff about—(Time expired)

Question agreed to.