George Campbell (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, my question is to Senator Vanstone, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. Can the minister confirm reports today that a Chinese temporary worker paid at below award wages was forced to pay $10,000 to his employer for ‘legal fees’? How did this worker get in under the 457 visa scheme when the employer has confirmed that he was given an unskilled position? Can the minister confirm that printing trades are not even on her department’s list of occupations in demand? Did the employer also use the 457 visa scheme to undercut award wages by $480 a week? What is the total number of workers on 457 visas that have been sponsored by this company, Aprint, and how many are they currently employing? When did the department first become aware of this clear case of exploitation and flagrant breaches of the Migration Act, and what action has the minister taken to protect the rights of the Chinese workers and enforce the act?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for the question. The question gives me the opportunity to highlight my understanding of this issue, which I think puts paid to the lie, in effect, being told by those who say that skilled migrant workers who come to Australia are vulnerable and cannot look after themselves. I say that because the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs received a complaint with respect to this matter on 22 August. In fact, I am advised that there were two contacts made on that day: one by way of an email from a woman whose name I do not know and whose name, I believe, is not known to the department; and one through a visit to the department by Mr Zhang. I am further advised that someone from a union who was purporting to represent the workers then contacted the department on 4 September.

I make that point to indicate that these people actually complained themselves and, in addition, complained through an intermediary of theirs—this particular woman who sent the email. That was on 22 August. An interview was conducted on 23 August—that is, the next day. The next day we went out and conducted interviews, and a subsequent interview, I understand, was held on 28 August because this involved another department. And investigations into this matter are continuing. I do not have advice with respect to details of any other staff that may be employed by this particular employer but it is clear, on the face of some remarks—if they are properly reported—that the employer certainly has not understood his obligations and has not done the right thing.

It is a similar case to one that was brought to light by some Filipino chefs in the ACT—a case that received much notoriety. Senator Lundy raised this matter, I think, in February. Some three or four months after the workers had raised it themselves, and when the matter was under investigation, Senator Lundy, hearing that there might be something she could jump on the bandwagon about, decided to raise it as an issue. The point that I make here is simply this: the issue was that some skilled migrant workers took the opportunity to complain. Because of that an investigation was held into those restaurants. As a consequence of the findings of that investigation, the local authority decided to do further investigation. And what did it find? Australian workers were being underpaid and were not complaining. It is only because the Filipino workers were here that the local authorities bothered to investigate the restaurant trade in the ACT.

That shows that people who come here as skilled migrants are skilled migrants. They have a significant contribution to offer. They are not incapable of complaining. I encourage them to complain. I encourage anybody to complain if they think that they have, in some way, been mistreated. I finish by simply making the point—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Evans, shouting across the chamber is disorderly.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

She is not answering the question.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I don’t care. Shouting across the chamber is disorderly.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I just make the point that, as with criminal law, corporate law and so many different arms of the law, it is not possible to devise a system of law, in almost any area, where you can guarantee there will not be people who will try to break the law. What you can do is say that when you catch them you will deal with them. And that is what we are doing.

George Campbell (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Isn’t this another case of an employer using 457 visas to exploit foreign workers and undercut Australian wages and conditions? Is that what the minister meant when she said that we need the scheme to keep Australian wages down? How many more cases may be out there, Minister, unreported and not investigated because the workers face deportation by their employers if they speak out? Does the minister have absolute confidence in her department’s handling of the 457 visa scheme?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is an interesting proposition that the union movement appears no longer happy to have a minimum salary level or the award. That is no longer satisfactory, because the union movement now says, ‘Don’t worry about the award; we want market rates.’ Forget an understanding that getting a market rate is by the market setting the rate, not by an award or an MSL. We have a skill requirement here and a salary requirement. People are required to follow that. If they do not follow that—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

None of which is met.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I acknowledge the interjection by Senator Evans. It means that Senator Evans is saying that the New South Wales Department of Health, the biggest user of this visa, is not meeting its salary requirements. Every state government not meeting its salary requirement is a ridiculous—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Chris Evans interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Evans will come to order. I am warning you that if there are any more interjections, I will report you to the Senate.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: when the minister is abusing and addressing me across the chamber, she will get a reaction, and if you fail to deal with that you will get a reaction.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have been continually interjecting during the minister’s answer, and I call you to order. Resume your seat.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was speaking on the point of order.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Resume your seat. You have continually been disrupting the minister whilst she has been trying to answer the question, and I ask you to come to order. I have warned you.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have not ruled that way.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am ruling that there is no point of order, and I ask you to resume your seat too.

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: I simply ask you to reflect on the probity of your intervening when a senator is putting a point of order to you. He should be heard before you make your ruling.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator, it is my job to try to keep this chamber in some sort of order, and continual interjections across the chamber do not help. I asked Senator Evans to resume his seat because he was causing more noise in the chamber than we should be having.

John Faulkner (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a different point of order. My point of order goes to a statement you made to the chamber in relation to asking senators to resume their seats when you are on your feet. I wondered whether that applied to Minister Vanstone, who did not do so when you stood for a considerable period of time.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind all senators that when I am on my feet senators should come to order, resume their seats and remain silent.