John Hogg (Queensland, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise briefly to take note of document No. 9, the Australia-Indonesia Institute annual report for 2004-05. Whilst the report is somewhat old in that sense, I nonetheless think that it is important to take the opportunity to speak to reports such as this one because of the need to have good relations with our nearest neighbour.

As I said on another occasion, there are difficulties from time to time, even amongst the best of neighbours, and some of the difficulties are no more highlighted than by the problems that actively occupy the minds of a large number of people in Australia with respect to the Bali nine. Whilst not in any way condoning what they have done, the fate that those people face is very much at the forefront of the minds of a large number of Australians who do not like the idea of the death penalty applying. It would be quite unfortunate if that fate was suffered by those people. Having said that, I go back to a time when our relationships were not at a high. When, for example, East Timor—Timor Leste, as it now is—was obtaining its independence there was a great deal of friction and resistance on the part of Indonesia to what was taking place. Of course, the relationship between their country, Indonesia, and ours became quite difficult indeed.

One of the things recommended in a committee report—and I see here Senator Sandy Macdonald, who was part of the committee—was a closer relationship. I mentioned this recently on another occasion in this chamber. It is so important that that relationship exists, not just at the senior levels but even at the parliamentary level, and that has been exhibited now on a number of occasions with exchange visits between our parliaments—recently a delegation of politicians from the federal parliament visited Indonesia—and that is quite healthy indeed.

From my perspective, on at least two, possibly three, occasions I have had the pleasure of meeting with parliamentarians from Indonesia and talking about the very basics of democracy, the operation of a politician in a democratic society and how the democratic processes work. On each occasion those people have been very attentive to the way in which we operate as a democracy. That does not mean that they will go back and take up everything that they have seen here. We have assisted these people through the facilities of the Senate in understanding more about how our democratic processes work and I think it has been very much to their advantage and to our advantage in our long-term relationship.

It really does one some good to read this annual report of the Australia-Indonesia Institute and see that the institute does have positive goals in developing a positive relationship between our countries. Of course, given that Indonesia is our largest neighbour, right on our doorstep, a good international relationship is important in spite of the difficulties that might arise in the relationship from time to time. It does not mean that we will not have differences, but those differences should not be allowed to get in the way. I seek leave to continue my remarks.

Leave granted.

Ruth Webber (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to make some brief remarks on this report of the Australia-Indonesia Institute, and I want to reiterate the comments my good friend Senator Hogg made about the importance not only of this institute but of Australia’s relationship with Indonesia. As I am from Western Australia, parts of Indonesia are much closer to my home base of Perth than most of the rest of Australia is. I have gone on the record more than once in this place to say it is much easier for me to get to Bali than to get to Canberra—and often much more enjoyable when I get there, I must say.

But having said that, and taking the flippancy out of it, one of the significant activities of the Australia-Indonesia Institute is an annual dialogue that they sponsor and conduct between people they consider to be young leaders in business, in academia, in politics and in the media. Last year I was fortunate to be one of the four politicians who attended that. It was really brought home to me that it was an important forum to be part of. It was two days of intensive exchange of ideas and views on a number of the issues confronting both of our nations, and very free and frank exchanges of ideas and views. But it also led to the establishment of some ongoing relationships. As Senator Hogg has referred to, recently there was the delegation of Indonesian parliamentarians from Indonesian Commission 1. One of those parliamentarians had taken part in that dialogue that I was part of, so already he had an understanding of and a relationship with some Australian politicians and with some other people from the various federal and state bureaucracies. I think it was a really dynamic and important way of establishing a good and open dialogue between our two nations.

Indonesia is one of the younger democracies in our region, and it certainly is a democracy these days. I think it is important that we place on record our congratulations to that nation and those people for making that transition to democracy. It is a lively democracy; there have been comings and goings of governments and political parties in the short time that it has been open and democratic. I know this parliament has done everything that it can to ensure that their elections have been conducted in a free and open way.

I note the government is now using the Australia-Indonesia Institute as a bit of a model for conducting dialogues with other nations in our region. There is an Australia-Thailand Institute, for example. I think it really is a significant and good development for creating closer understanding and cooperation. My only caveat on that would be that that cooperation and understanding are at good levels among what they call the elites of our communities. The challenge for the institute, those of us in this place and the respective governments of our nations is to encourage that understanding and cooperation further down in our community. It is very easy for some of us to get a bit ahead of ourselves and not take the community with us in an understanding of the dynamics of our region and the importance of the issues that we deal with when coming together.

When I took part in the annual dialogue, obviously we discussed the issues of terrorism and security within our region; illegal fishing—which I am sure Senator Ian Macdonald will raise, so even though I am from Western Australia I do not feel the need to highlight them; and the portrayal in the media of some of the cultural differences. I think there needs to be a lot more sensitivity, and perhaps the institute and others need to do a bit more work with the Australian media on how we portray people from Indonesia and people of their faith in our media. There were also the issues of broader understanding of the ways the nations work and of conducting our relationship in a harmonious, cooperative and sensitive manner rather than with some of the megaphone diplomacy that has taken place either with some of our other neighbours or in the past.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too wanted to comment on the work of the Australia-Indonesia Institute and congratulate them on the work they continue to do and the greater understanding they bring between our two countries. Like Senator Webber, I often say to people—it is not strictly correct, but I do say it—that I live closer to the Indonesian capital than I do to the Australian capital. Certainly I live much closer to Indonesia than I live to the Australian capital. That highlights that, for many Australians, Indonesia is a very, very close neighbour. For that reason—and of course for other more general and appropriate reasons—it is very important that Australia and New Zealand continue to maintain the very best and most cordial of arrangements.

Indonesia is a huge country, with over 200 million people compared to Australia’s 20 million people. I do not have the figure in front of me but, from memory, it comprises over 3,000 individual islands, and in that geography there are many different ethnic groups. To come together under one nation that is now a democratic nation is a great step forward and something of which the Indonesian people should be very proud.

I was one of those who, whilst not always applauding or even accepting some of the methods of governing, had doubts about whether the changes in Timor were changes which should have been supported by the Australian government. History shows that the Australian government did play a very substantial part in the independence of Timor, but at times I wonder whether the Timorese people are better off. There were certainly some aspects of the Indonesian administration which were, to put it politely, unfortunate, but one wonders whether Timor might not have been better being part of that new democracy going forward.

As we all know, Indonesia is principally a Muslim country, but a very tolerant one. It is a country that does accept and welcome other religions and creeds. It is a country that Australia has to continue to do everything possible to support, to help and to bring together. I think both Indonesians and Australians can learn a lot from each other. Anything that supports those closer relationships, such as the work that the Australia-Indonesia Institute does, is very important.

I mention the issue of Indonesians illegally fishing in Australian waters. This is not a new problem: people do tell me that Indonesians have been fishing in those waters for tens of thousands of years. Without going back into the genealogy and movements of peoples in times gone by, it is pretty easy to accept the general proposition that Indonesia did have some interaction with Australia long before Europeans came to this country. We do need to work very closely with the Indonesian government and the provincial governments in trying to arrest the problem of illegal fishing—not just because it is illegal and it is fishing in our waters but because it is destroying the fish stocks in those waters. Ultimately that will be of no benefit to Indonesia, as it will be of no benefit to Australia. So we have to work very cooperatively with the Indonesians.

We have started dialogues. My discussions with the Indonesian ministers prior to Christmas did indicate that at the highest level the Indonesian government understood that it was an irritation for Australia, and they were very keen to do something to stop irritating what they considered to be a good neighbour. We have to continue to look at that, and the work that the institute does certainly helps. I seek leave to continue my remarks.

Leave granted; debate adjourned.