Ruth Webber (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ian Macdonald has just indicated that he was not at the committee meeting. As a full member of the ECITA committee, I was not able to attend either.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. The rules of this chamber do not allow senators to be verballed. I was late getting to the committee. I was there for most of it.

John Hogg (Queensland, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order.

Ruth Webber (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Fair enough. I indicated to the committee secretariat at the time that I would not be able to attend what is indeed a regular meeting of the committee. In working out whether I could get there, I had a look through the agenda for the meeting. It talked about apologies, confirmation of minutes and the supplementary budget estimates, noting the committee was to consider the draft program. It attached the draft program and listed Telstra as one of the agencies to appear at 9 am on Monday, 30 October. Who was I to know, by not being available for the regular meeting, that the government was going to pull this stunt and try to have a deliberative meeting? Who was I to know? There was no indication in any of the agenda papers that the government had an issue with an agency that they still currently own fronting up and being accountable regarding how they spend taxpayers’ money and deliver on their universal service obligations and other issues that the minister comes in here and trumpets quite often.

Telstra was very clearly listed in the draft agenda as an agency that would be called. There was no indication in all of the meeting papers that the chair would try and ram through some other agenda—some other issue—in ensuring that Telstra will not appear before us. As I say, these meeting papers were delivered to my office somewhere between 11.30 am and 12 pm for a 1 pm meeting. I indicated to the secretariat at the time that I thought it highly unlikely that I could be there. I flicked through the agenda and it did seem that it would be the normal consensus arrangement that private meetings of committees have to go through if they do not seek leave of the Senate to meet. It did not in any way indicate that it would be a deliberative meeting where votes were to be taken. It did not in any way indicate that there would be controversy, that there would be something rammed through just before a division was called. Everyone in this place knew that there would be a division on the message back on the Trade Practices Act legislation some time in that hour. Everyone in this place knew that, and it was highly unusual—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I didn’t.

Ruth Webber (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, if you did not know that there was going to be a division, you must have been one of the few people who did not. I work in a whip’s office and I can tell you that every Labor senator knew that there was going to be a division, and I am sure my friend Senator Ferris ensured that all of you knew that there would be a division at some point.

We all knew that there would be a division. We all knew that it was a regular meeting but we thought it was just a consensus meeting to establish a subcommittee to have another hearing on the national parks inquiry, to sign off on some minutes and, as I said, to consider the draft agenda, the draft program, for the budget estimates that clearly outlined that Telstra would appear some time after 9 am on Monday the 30th. There was no indication that the government had anything else planned. There was no consultation. There was nothing. And now, lo and behold, because the chair has been caught out, because he tried to do something contrary to standing orders, we now have to have another meeting by teleconference at 11 am eastern standard time next Wednesday.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on a point of order, Mr Deputy President. The terminology ‘caught out’ is a reflection on Senator Eggleston. I think that is improper under the standing orders, unparliamentary and should be withdrawn.

John Hogg (Queensland, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It should be withdrawn.

Ruth Webber (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw. But the committee was caught trying to do things— (Time expired)