Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for a Human Services, Senator Ian Campbell.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, you are warned! You have been continuously interjecting all question time, and I ask you to come to order!

Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Human Services, Senator Ian Campbell. Given that the government’s new ID card plan will create an enormous national database with biometric photos and information on almost all adult Australians and many children, can the minister inform the Australian public about who exactly will have access to the national database? In particular, can the minister confirm that the Security Intelligence Organisation, ASIO, and the Australian Federal Police will be able to access the database, and on what basis that access will occur?

Ian Campbell (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Nettle for the question. We did have very thorough questioning on these issues at the recent Senate estimates committee hearing, and I thank Senator Nettle for taking an interest in this. As I have said on previous occasions, the reason we want to bring in modern technology to a card that delivers Medicare payments, Centrelink payments and Veterans Affairs payments is that the existing card based systems, which are plastic cards—in fact, some of them are paper cards—are easily copied. If you have a colour photocopier, you can photocopy a Medicare card, get it laminated and potentially defraud taxpayers of billions of dollars.

There was a recent case in Queensland where a doctor ripped off Australian taxpayers to the tune of $2 million. There are a whole range of cases because, effectively, what occurred when the previous Labor government handed out Medicare cards—which, as I have said, are very easy to create copies of at very cheap prices—was they formed the basis of a lot of the proof of identity that is required within the Australian system. As I have said, the head of the Australian Federal Police has said that identity fraud costs Australia—that is, taxpayers, the mums and dads who pay their taxes—up to $4 billion a year. And about 50 per cent of that identity fraud—that is, creating a false identity, stealing someone else’s identity, borrowing their identity or manipulating your own identity—occurs very easily using the current system. There is no doubt we do need a new card that is high quality. Most Australians also know that there are many cards that exist at the moment with photographs on them. Photographs are a constructive way and a practical way for people to identify themselves. I think virtually all states now have photographs on their drivers licences. That is something that Australians understand is useful in terms of their security.

The database that will be created under the new card proposal, which will provide Medicare, Centrelink and Veterans’ Affairs payments and services to people, will have a high-quality photograph on it which will help us to recognise the person who is claiming the Medicare payment and ensure that they can identify themselves. It will make it much, much tougher, if not impossible, for a fraudster or a rorter to get access to the nearly $100 billion in payments that the Australian taxpayers make available to people at the rate of about $3,000 per second—that will probably make the finance minister shudder, but we pay out $3,000 a second. We want to make sure that that money goes to the people who deserve it and who are entitled to it. We want to make sure that the taxpayers do not get ripped off to the tune of billions of dollars.

The senator asked about ASIO. Access by security agencies to this information is controlled by the laws that govern those agencies. My understanding is that ASIO and the Australian Federal Police will be coming before the Senate committee—I think the hearings are next week; the senator may know better than I do—to explain exactly the interaction there. From the briefings I have obtained, my understanding is that they will require, as they require at the moment, warrants issued by a court to get access to that sort of data. There will be no centralised megadatabase associated with the card. The card is effectively a key to allow the Australian people to access their Medicare payments, their Centrelink payments and their Veterans’ Affairs payments. (Time expired)

Kerry Nettle (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I would be interested in hearing from the minister anything more he can describe to us about the level of access ASIO and the AFP will have. At estimates there was an indication that they would only require a search warrant in some circumstances, that in other circumstances they would be able to trawl through the database. If the minister is able to clarify that for the Senate, that would be appreciated. Then perhaps the minister could inform the Senate whether there is any other country that has this form of national ID database, where police are able to trawl through that database and access the information provided in that database, and what mechanisms they have for whether they need a warrant or can simply trawl through the database. That would be appreciated.

Ian Campbell (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again I thank the senator for the supplementary question. It is incredibly important that the Australian people have faith in the privacy aspects of this, I think, very important reform. The agencies that the senator refers to have at my suggestion—and I think at the Senate committee’s suggestion—said that they will come along to the Senate committee and answer detailed questions about the very interactions that Senator Nettle is requesting information on.

I made the reference of this legislation to the Senate committee, and made it for as long a time as possible—I think it is just under six weeks—so that there is an open process of analysis of this legislation. I want to make sure that all senators are convinced in their own minds that this card is a good idea to make it easier for people to access payments—Medicare, Centrelink and Veterans’ Affairs—but that their privacy will be protected. I think one of the key elements of that is that the existing data that relates to Australians at Centrelink, Medicare or the Department of Veterans’ Affairs stays exactly where it is, and this does not change the access for third parties to that information. (Time expired)