Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Abetz, the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water Resources. Sir Nicholas Stern stressed today at the National Press Club the need for global collaboration on climate change and the importance of developed countries ratifying Kyoto. He also said the failure to include the effects of greenhouse emissions on climate was ‘the greatest market failure the world has ever seen’. He said the cost of not addressing climate change by emissions trading, seriously funding research and development in renewable energy and addressing energy waste could be up to 20 times greater than the cost of fixing the problem. With Australia set to exceed our Kyoto target in 2012, isn’t your government engaging in very risky economics?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is a bit rich. I think most people would say that the economic management of this country over the past 10 years has been—

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Has been appalling.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown interjects and says ‘appalling’. Not even the Labor Party would assert that. Not even the Labor Party would make such a silly interjection.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Minister! I would ask you to ignore the interjections and address your remarks to the chair.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I think you are quite right: the best treatment for Senator Brown is to ignore him; that is what he deserves. The economic management of this country has been second to none and I think that has generally been recognised.

In relation to the greenhouse situation, as I was able to indicate to Senator George Campbell in a previous answer, 10 years ago we got started on this with the establishment of the Australian Greenhouse Office. In more recent times, Sir Nicholas Stern also said: ‘So what we should be looking for is all countries getting involved and thinking through how we go’—listen to this—‘beyond Kyoto.’ The problem is the Democrats, the Greens and the Australian Labor Party are still stuck on Kyoto. The Sir Nicholas Sterns of this world, and everybody else who is genuinely engaged in this issue, are saying, ‘Get beyond Kyoto, we’ve got to move on.’ There were genuine problems now recognised by people like Sir Nicholas Stern, because, if Kyoto were the answer, why would he want us to move beyond Kyoto? There would be no need to.

The reason we need to move beyond Kyoto is very simple—that is, it did not engage China, India and other major greenhouse emitters. Therefore, we as a government said quite honestly and quite appropriately, ‘There is no sense in us signing up to targets if that makes no difference’. However, and this is a very important issue, what galls me is that there are certain governments running around at the moment alleging somehow that they have some moral superiority because they have signed up to Kyoto whilst failing absolutely in meeting the targets to which they signed up. Whereas we, I believe, have a greater degree of moral superiority in this debate, given that we have not signed up to Kyoto but will be one of the handful of countries that will actually meet or go very close to meeting the Kyoto targets.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! There is too much noise in the chamber!

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I always say to the Australian people is: do not look at the posturing; do not look at the words; look at the actions. If there is one thing about the Howard government, it is that our actions have so often spoken louder than the mantra from those opposite.

Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I think the moral superiority the minister is talking about is a figment of his own imagination. Does the minister accept the economic modelling that shows that the introduction of a one per cent energy efficiency target would result in an almost 20 per cent reduction in wholesale electricity costs and that it is the lowest cost-effective greenhouse abatement measure? Why isn’t the government moving towards an immediate introduction of an energy efficient target? Why is the Prime Minister still talking today, as I understand it, about job losses when Stern shows that you can have growth and more jobs and still make major emissions cuts?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In case Senator Allison did not hear all of my previous answer, I refer her to what Sir Nicholas Stern said in November last year: ‘What we should be looking for is all countries.’ And that is what Australia is working towards. Sure, we can do economic modelling using all sorts of means and come up with interesting figures. But at the end of the day—and I think the vast majority of Australians accept and understand this—unless every country is involved and engaged in this issue it may well be worthless. That is why we have to move beyond Kyoto—something that even Sir Nicholas Stern is willing to acknowledge. It is about time the Democrats, the Greens and the Labor Party came on board with that as well.

Lyn Allison (Victoria, Australian Democrats) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order. The minister is misrepresenting Sir Nicholas Stern. He did say that all countries need to be on board but he did not say that developing countries were in that category. He very definitely said that it was developed countries that should collaborate.

Paul Calvert (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. The minister has completed his answer.