Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to seek some clarification of the comments made by the minister in her closing speech. She ranged widely in her contributions. I was hoping to gain some extra information. She talked about the government’s plan and how it was going to cover 100 per cent of Australians. I wonder if she might be able to help us. Minister, you recently announced that you had signed the OPEL deal. Is that correct?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are the terms of the agreement public?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will it be on the website soon?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are you indicating it will not be available on the website at all?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I said it will not be available soon.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a reason that a signed document that is a grant, as you describe it, is not available publicly so that we can judge the terms of it?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It contains some confidential and commercial-in-confidence material.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It relates to a public grant. Other public grant documents are available from other departments on websites. What confidential information can there be about spending taxpayer money? When will it be available, Minister?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It will be available at some stage in the future but there will be some confidential aspects that will not be available.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you give an indication of which areas fall into the confidential category and which will be available?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, not yet.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have signed the document, haven’t you?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Where are the 312 OPEL exchanges located that will be enabled for ADSL2+? Is the list of 312 exchanges available?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, they are listed.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Where are they listed?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the web.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Can you give me an indication of whether or not ADSL2+ is already available in those exchanges?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Was your question, ‘What is available on the web’?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just to clarify for the minister, I was asking whether or not there was an indication about whether those exchanges that are listed are exchanges that already have ADSL2+ in them.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A public report on the wholesale access arrangements to the network is being finalised. This report will be released shortly, but the ADSL enablement of the exchanges will be proceeded with in accordance with a certain order. I do not think it is yet publicly available.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So, the order that they are going to be—

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Not yet available.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Are the 1,361 OPEL WiMAX sites on the website?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, are they available?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are they on the website?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They are not on the website but they will be available, indicatively, shortly, because they have to be rolled out and placed.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Have OPEL had to identify where those are going to be?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, I can appreciate that you would not have quite the same level of detail on this as you would otherwise no doubt want. There is an implementation plan and in the implementation plan, in consultation with local councils and other stakeholders, the exact placement to get the best coverage will be ordered.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The maps that were previously circulated that are not available on the website actually had a tower and a 20 kilometre radius drawn onto them. They are not applicable anymore?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, they are. They are indicative plans—that is what happens when you are rolling out a network. You start with a certain analysis and an indicative plan and then, when you actually do the physical rollout, obviously you consult as to the best way to locate a particular tower and precisely where you will locate it.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you for that, Minister. In terms of the contribution by OPEL—$900 million, I think, has been indicated, roughly—could you detail what that consists of?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sorry. What is it?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you tell me what the OPEL contribution—the $900 million equip matching—consists of? Is it in kind? Is it cash? Could you just give us an indication?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I cannot give you a break-up, but it is roughly $907 million in cash and kind.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Surely OPEL have indicated how much cash they are putting in.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, it is not relevant to the current bill under debate and I am not going to enter into any description with you in the debate on the Communications Fund about intricacies of the OPEL agreement.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You did range very broadly in your speech. You raised these issues. You raised the government’s—

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not relevant to the bill.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just trying to understand. I have asked a string of questions about the government’s proposal.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a committee.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes. You have answered them all, and all of a sudden you are saying you will not.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I am just saying I am not going to give you any detail.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Some explanation of a contribution of $900 million—any explanation beyond cash and in kind would not seem to be unduly detailed—just for some indication of how much cash they are putting in. It does not seem to be a huge detail. I would have thought up-front in the contract it would say X dollars.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not going to go into any further detail about the OPEL agreement other than complete generalities and I am not going to give you any breakdown. I did not mention OPEL once in my summing-up speech.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate you are embarrassed by it and you do not want to mention it by name. None of your other senators did. We had lengthy contributions from a whole bunch of government senators who could not bring themselves to talk up their own project. They could only talk and attack the Labor Party’s, but you did make reference—

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are just very easy to attack.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Maybe yours is so poor that you are embarrassed to talk about it.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, ours is very sound.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am offering you the opportunity to talk about it. Now you are saying, ‘I don’t want to talk about it.’

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just saying that I am not giving you details.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a string of questions to ask you about your own project which you have talked about and you described in your closing remarks. So I am just following on from your own remarks.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I realise you have not got much of an idea on it. I am not going to give you any more detail.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What is the time frame for the completion of the enablement of the exchanges that are having ADSL2+ put into them?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is a detail that I am not prepared to engage in.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will it be part of the commercial-in-confidence information that will not be available publicly?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I make the same response.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are there conditions—

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Parry interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I do not think there are, Senator Parry. There might be in your world, but there are not any in mine.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Coonan interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is where you are building your base stations. They will be as useful on Mars as they will be—

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Coonan interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, they have more chance of getting fibre to the node than your WiMAX.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Coonan interjecting—

The Temporary Chairman:

Senator Conroy has the call.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr Temporary Chairman. I appreciate that we had three on one there while you were dozing, but I will manage.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Coonan interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That would be unfair on you, because that would be three of us against three of you. I keep getting interrupted—if I could just get back to my questions.

The Temporary Chairman:

You have the call, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Are there conditions that the OPEL consortium have to meet before the funds are made available to them? That is a general question rather than a specific one. I did not ask what they were; I simply asked: are there conditions?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are significant benchmarks that have to be met before funding flows.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Will they be made available to the public?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At some point, of course.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a reason that they cannot be made available, given that you have signed the contract?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The report is being prepared, as I thought I mentioned a little earlier. A public report on the access arrangements is being finalised and that will contain considerable detail.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It might save us all some time if you would indicate what was going to be in that—then I could stop playing ‘30 questions’. If you could give us just a general indication of what will be in that report that you have referred to I may not have to ask a lot of the questions I have.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Please keep going because I am not in a position to indicate what is going to be in a report that has not been completed.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Presumably you know what is going to be in the report. I presume that you signed off on its preparation saying, ‘Give us a report about X, Y, and Z.’ But if you do not know what is in your own report that you have got coming then that would not shock me at all. I am sure it would not shock many in the chamber.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That’s because you’re so gullible.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a contractual requirement on OPEL to provide WiMAX as its wireless solution or is it allowed to use other wireless broadband technologies?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will have to wait and see.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What spectrum will OPEL be utilising for its WiMAX wireless broadband network?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said a little earlier, details of wholesale arrangements, pricing, rollout arrangements and technology will be included in a report due for publication shortly. I do not really see how this arises in relation to the debate on the Communications Fund.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

OPEL do not have any spectrum, do they? They do not own any spectrum, do they?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course they have spectrum. They cannot operate without spectrum.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But they do not own the spectrum that they are going to be operating in. That is not what I asked. I asked: do they own any spectrum?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not going to engage in a discussion about spectrum when we are dealing with the Communications Fund. I have not raised any of these issues.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They do not own any spectrum, do they, Minister? That is the truth. They are going to be using shared spectrum. That is publicly acknowledged by OPEL themselves. But I will move on.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Why ask then, Senator?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just wondering if you knew, given that you gave them $900 million when they do not even own any spectrum. I will move on. Is there a contractual requirement on OPEL to provide WiMAX as its wireless solution or is it allowed to use other wireless broadband technologies? Can they hang 3G on these towers as part of it?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does that mean that they cannot or that there is no requirement?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no requirement.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Preventing them from using the towers for any technology?

The Temporary Chairman:

Senator Conroy, I remind you to address your remarks through the chair.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will do my best. I am actually asking the minister questions.

George Campbell (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is the committee stage.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is the committee stage, and I am actually allowed to ask questions directly to the minister. That is what I thought. Minister, you seem confused by my question. Perhaps I can explain it again.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not at all confused.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just trying to work out what it was you said in answer—to be fair to you, because I do not want to misrepresent what you actually said.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You usually do; why should it be any different tonight?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is there a contractual requirement on OPEL to provide WiMAX as its wireless solution or is it allowed to use other wireless broadband technologies?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course they are using WiMAX.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was not asking if they were; I was asking if they use something else on the same towers, or have you specifically said to them in the contract that they can only use the WiMAX?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will have to wait to get the detail of the contract, Senator Conroy, but there is a clear specification that there is certain technology that is to be used. That has always been part of the bid and part of all the public discussion. Nothing has changed.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. I appreciate that they are required to use fixed wireless. I guess the second part of my question is: are they only allowed to use that on the towers or can they use anything else and put it on the towers as well? I think that is what I am trying to ask you, perhaps inelegantly.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would agree with that. I think you will have to see what the implementation plan is, and of course that has not yet been finalised.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am a little confused. I am not sure why you are not able to specify whether or not they can put 3G on the same towers.

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Madam Temporary Chairman, I rise on a point of order. We have tolerated nearly 20 minutes of questions that have had absolutely no relevance to the committee stage of this particular bill. This bill is about the trust fund. We have had questions about all these technical details of telecommunications in Australia which are of no relevance. We can keep going all night. The minister has handled the questions exceptionally well, but we are really not getting to the core issue of what the committee stage is all about. So, unless there is anything of relevance, can we have the question put?

The Temporary Chairman:

In view of the legislation that we are considering, which is the Telecommunications Legislation Amendment (Protecting Services for Rural and Regional Australia into the Future) Bill 2007, and given that generally debate on these matters is quite broad, I think it is appropriate that Senator Conroy can continue with the line of questioning that he is pursuing with the minister.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, is OPEL required to make publicly available accurate coverage maps of its WiMAX network that take into account local topographical features? If so, when will these maps be available?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have already said—three or four times now, I think—that details of the rollout arrangements, the wholesale prices, the location of towers and all of those arrangements are being prepared in a report for public consultation.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In the press release you talked about public consultation on the wholesale aspects of the OPEL proposal, but you are now indicating that public consultation will be broader on some of these other topics as well, like coverage. Is that what you just indicated? I thought that is what you indicated.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think it would be fair to say that all of the advantages and details of this particular proposal and the contract are not included in one press release.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sure the minister was not attempting to confuse me, but unfortunately she succeeded.

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It doesn’t take much!

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I appreciate that may be the case, which is why I am asking for some clarification as to what will be subject to public consultation.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will see it very soon.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I did not ask for any in-depth technical considerations; I just asked what will be available. Your press release states one thing will be available. You indicated a little earlier that it will be broader than that. I am just seeking to get you to clarify what else will be part of a public consultation process on top of what you said in your press release. That is all I am trying to find out.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think you are trying to dance on the head of a pin, Senator Conroy. It is all the same. The answer that I gave you a little earlier is correct.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was not suggesting that it was incorrect. I am not attempting to dance on the head of a pin. Your press release is quite specific about what will be open for public consultation. It talks about the wholesale arrangements, which is a good, positive thing. But you indicated that there was a little bit more that would be available for public consultation, and I am just trying to clarify what those other aspects would be.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not want to pre-empt it. I am still finalising what will be in it.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are there minimum speeds that are required to be delivered by the OPEL network?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What are those minimum speeds?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will have to wait and see the document.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you clarify what the wholesaling obligations on OPEL are?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is in the report.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can the government give a guarantee that no OPEL retail services will sell for more than $60 a month?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will have to wait for the report.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have publicly stated in documents that have been circulated by your colleagues, as well as by you, that a $35 to $60 price will be charged for retail. What are the requirements on OPEL and/or its shareholders in terms of the retail prices that can be charged, given that you have said prices will be between $35 and $60, depending on speed and download limits?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I adhere to that.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So there will be no products that will be more than $60?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

OPEL have given me an indication and I adhere to that.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So OPEL have indicated that the maximum price they will charge for any product is $60? Is that what you are saying?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I adhere to my public statements about it. OPEL have given an indication of that order. They have committed to $35 to $60 per month, and the wholesale arrangements will be released shortly.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, can you, on behalf of the government, give a guarantee that no OPEL retail services will sell for more than $60 a month?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I have said is that OPEL has committed to prices between $35 and $60 per month and the wholesale arrangements will be released shortly.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Have the ACCC engaged in discussions about either the wholesale price or the retail prices that have been indicated? Have they ticked off on these or are they part of ongoing discussions?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just not going to answer that. I do not see how it is relevant to the Communications Fund.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is relevant to whether or not they have agreed to the $35 to $60 pricing that you have indicated. You have just proudly said you stand by it. I am asking now, given that you are standing by these prices: have the ACCC been involved in discussions around either the wholesaling aspects or those retail prices? Were they consulted over these prices?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are going to have to ask the ACCC.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You do not know?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are going to have to ask the ACCC.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How and when will the government independently test the OPEL network to see whether it is achieving its coverage requirements, and what will be the benchmarks for this independent testing?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It will be done during implementation. It will be done by an independent lab.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Who will be conducting the tests, and what are their qualifications in wireless networks?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There have been some details already, but the details of the reporting will be also part of the report that will be released shortly.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Under what network load conditions, either real or simulated, will the tests be conducted?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You will have to wait for the detail, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could I just clarify: I do not actually believe that Optus or Elders own any of the equipment at the moment, because they are not engaged in producing this product anywhere in the world, at all, at the moment. Is that the case? If that is the case, how have you tested the claims made by OPEL about their coverage, given that they do not actually have any equipment at the moment? How have you tested their coverage?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The equipment has been tested and, obviously as part of the implementation plan, there is a benchmarked and scheduled rollout and arrangements for testing.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What is the factual basis for the government’s claim that the OPEL network will extend high-speed broadband to 99 per cent of households and businesses, and will OPEL be required to ensure that this commitment is met?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What requirements are there on the OPEL shareholders to contribute their own financial resources to the network, and how will their delivery on these requirements be audited?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is part of the contract.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And they will be audited on their $900 million to ensure that it actually is spent?

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Absolutely.

The Temporary Chairman:

The question is that the bill stand as printed.

Question agreed to.

Bill agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.