Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. Will the minister confirm that the so-called ‘coercive investigative powers’ of the Australian Building and Construction Commission are modelled on those of the ACCC and akin to those of the ATO and ASIC?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In respect of the Forward with Fairness policy implementation plan, the Australian government is committed to—let me be clear about this and the Liberals should understand—maintaining the existing arrangements for the building and construction industry including the ABCC until 31 January 2010. After that date, the ABCC will be replaced by a specialist building and construction division of the inspectorate of Fair Work Australia, the FWA.

The government are also committed to consult widely with industry stakeholders on the arrangement and the specialist division will apply. On 22 May 2008 the government announced that they would ask the Hon. Murray Wilcox QC to conduct consultations with the industry and report on how best to transition to the specialist division of the FWA inspectorate. The Australian government have asked His Honour to report by the end of March 2009. The terms of reference for that were released on 24 July 2008. It is important to understand what the key industry players are doing in the sense that His Honour has engaged in close consultation—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on a point of order on relevance, Mr President. This was a very specific question. We do not want a tour around the ALP’s various positions on the ABCC. The question was whether the investigative powers of the ABCC are modelled on those of the ACCC and akin to the ATO and ASIC. I would ask you, Mr President, to remind him of the question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As you know, Senator Abetz, I am not able to direct the minister how to answer the question. I can draw the minister’s attention to the question that you asked, and on the issue of relevance, Minister, I ask you to address the question that Senator Abetz has asked.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. As I was saying, Master Builders Australia welcomes the announcement noting that it is a ‘positive sign that the Government is committed to maintaining a tough cop on the beat in the building and construction industry’. The MBA confirmed that it looked forward to working with Justice Wilcox. Similarly, the AIG welcomed the appointment of Justice Wilcox, noting that His Honour is highly respected and that he will bring wisdom and balance to the exercise. In addition, this government has no tolerance for behaviour in the building and construction industry that breaks the law whether it is unlawful industrial action or underpayment of employees.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise on a point of order that goes to relevance. Under standing order 196 it is within the province of the President to require somebody speaking in the Senate to be relevant. Clearly, a very specific question has been asked and, with great respect, the appointment of His Honour Mr Wilcox has got nothing to do whatsoever in relation to whether the investigative powers of the ABCC are modelled on those of the ACCC and akin to the ATO and ASIC.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, I contend that there is no point of order. That is the second time Senator Abetz has tried to take that spurious point of order. Senator Ludwig is answering directly on the subject of the ABCC, its power, its future and Labor government policy relating to it. He is clearly on message on the question as asked. While Senator Abetz may be disappointed that after talking up his promotional prospects all weekend they did not eventuate, I am sorry about that. But Senator Ludwig is particularly on the subject matter of the question asked.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On the point of order there is no point of order. As you know I cannot direct the minister as to how to answer the question. I draw the minister’s attention to the fact that there is one minute and 51 seconds left to address the answer and to remain relevant to the question.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What we do expect is that all parties maintain respect for the workplace relations laws, including perhaps a commitment from the Liberals that they have now abandoned Work Choices and gone on to a new fair industrial relations system, including the ABCC. Unlikely though it may be, we still wait with bated breath for their response at some future date from their new shadow minister. This government’s approach is to consult in its workplace relations reform, which is really in stark contrast to the previous government’s approach. We will continue—

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Special Minister of State) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order in relation to relevance. Can you ask the minister to please get off message and onto answering the question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! There is no point of order.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unlike the Liberals we are about consultation in relation to our workplace relations, including the ABCC, including how the powers will operate, including how the system will work to ensure that there is fairness in the system, and to ensure that those matters such as the recent reports of verbal abuse and physical intimidation are dealt with appropriately and properly within the ABCC, because they are at arm’s length from this government. The system ensures, of course, that if there are matters that should be referred for police investigation they will be. And of course it would be inappropriate for me to make any further comment about those specific matters, but, in general to the broader question what I can say—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, under standing order 196 you have the power to direct a Senator to discontinue for continued irrelevance—

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr interjecting—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And tedious repetition as well, Senator Carr is right. But the point I make is in relation to continued irrelevance. This minister has now gone for three and a half minutes and has not even accidentally strayed anywhere near the subject matter of the question. I invite you, Mr President, to invoke the power bestowed upon you by standing order 196.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, clearly those opposite want to disrupt question time today to cover for the poor quality of their questions. There is no relevance whatsoever in standing order 196. What is tediously repetitious today is these spurious points of order. I ask you to dismiss this point of order and see if we can get back to answering some questions in the time available.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! There is no point of order. Senator Ludwig you have 22 seconds remaining in which to answer the question. I draw your attention to the question.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course the Liberals on the other side do not want to hear what we are doing in respect of the ABCC and they do not want to hear what we are doing in respect of the fair workplace relations that are being introduced. But if there are matters that I can ask the minister to take on notice in relation to the specific question that you asked I will see if Minister Gillard can provide additional information for you. (Time expired)

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the minister has no idea and has taken the first question on notice, I invite him to take the following questions on notice and get some advice from the minister. Given that the government has recently moved to expand the investigative powers of the ACCC, will the government be doing the same with the Australian Building and Construction Commission, or will the government cave in to the demands of Senators Gavin Marshall, Steve Hutchins and Doug Cameron that the ABCC be immediately abolished?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Of course, what the Liberals do not want to hear is that we are creating a fair and flexible workplace relations system that achieves the right balance between employers and employees. But, if there are matters I can ask Minister Gillard to turn her mind to and return a specific response to, I will seek to do that. If there are any additional matters she wants to address in respect of Senator Abetz’s question, I will ask her to do that.