Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Conroy. Will the minister confirm that this Labor government is now the biggest spending government in modern Australian history with expenses forecast to be 29 per cent of GDP in the coming financial year?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Minchin for his question. The global recession has led to the biggest downgrades in budget revenues in living memory, wiping around $210 billion from the budget. These downgrades are responsible for around two-thirds of the deterioration in the budget position since the last budget. In the current environment the only responsible course of action is to borrow to finance the temporary deficit. The alternative, significant spending cuts or tax increases, would result in a deeper and longer downturn and much higher unemployment. Even after accounting for revenue downgrades, the government’s balance sheet remains among the strongest in the world. Our projected levels of net debt are lower than any of the major advanced economies. Net debt is projected to peak at 13.8 per cent of GDP in 2013-14. This compares to an estimated 80 per cent of GDP for the 25 largest advanced economies collectively. Let us be clear: the government has a clear strategy that will begin returning the budget to surplus— (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the fact that the Treasurer did not have the courage to confess to the Australian people in his budget speech last night what the total deficit and debt is in the Rudd government budget. Given that the Treasurer will not tell us, will the Minister representing the Treasurer in the Senate, Senator Conroy, summon the courage to level with the Australian people and tell them exactly what the debt and deficit is in this budget?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The net debt deficits over the forward estimates, to save your lazy shadow Treasurer the trouble, are $32.1 billion or 2.7 per cent of GDP in 2008-09, $57.6 billion or 4.9 per cent of GDP in 2009-10, $57.1 billion or 4.7 per cent of GDP in 2010-11, $45.5 billion or 3.4 per cent in 2011-12 and $28.2 billion or two per cent of GDP in 2012-13. This budget has a strategy. This budget has a strategy to pay down debt as the economy recovers. (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask the minister a further supplementary question: given these massive deficits which he has just confirmed and the record spending of an extra $220 million a day since the government was elected, does this not prove that Labor has lost control of the nation’s finances?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What a bunch of frauds on the other side, and the frauds could not even manage to get through the morning before they were exposed, because when asked on Sunrise how much debt he would support and how big a deficit he would support Mr Hockey said:

Our deficit would be smaller. I’ll give you a figure as a starting point. At least $25 billion.

That was at 8.09 am. By 8.27 am the Leader of the Opposition on Sunrise, when asked the same question, said:

If we were in government today revenues would be higher, spending would be lower; therefore, debt would be much lower and the deficit would be much lower.

He is asked, ‘But you can’t say what figure?’ and he says:

No, you can’t because you—because I mean you sit down and you would work out a model.

So in less than 20 minutes these frauds on the other side of the chamber—(Time expired)

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Evans. Can the minister please outline to the Senate how the 2009-10 budget, outlined by the Treasurer last night in the face of the enormous economic challenges faced by the world’s economy, enables the government to support jobs and to deliver the investments needed to strengthen the Australian economy? What is the estimated number of jobs that will be protected as a result of the government’s actions to date and when is it projected that the budget will be returned to surplus—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I cannot hear the question because of interjections. That is unfair to me and to those wanting to listen to the question. Senator Moore, start again. I did not hear the full question.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Can the minister please outline to the Senate how the 2009-10 budget, outlined by the Treasurer last night in the face of the enormous economic challenges faced by the world’s economy, enables the government to support jobs and to deliver the investments needed to strengthen the Australian economy? What is the estimated number of jobs that will be protected as a result of the government’s actions to date and when is it projected that the budget will be returned to surplus as a result of the savings measures announced last night?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Moore for her question. This is very much a nation-building budget, a budget focused on roads, rail, ports and clean energy. The government has taken hard decisions to stimulate the economy, support jobs and best position Australians to take full advantage of a global recovery. The budget keeps stimulus and investment flowing to support the economy in these tough times and locks in the savings that will get us back into surplus when the tough times have passed. This budget is the third component of our stimulus strategy, which we know is working. The first component was payments to support jobs, the second was construction of shovel-ready schools and homes throughout the nation and now the third is stimulus through big infrastructure projects.

As a government there are no easy answers when you are tackling the biggest revenue downgrades ever confronted by an Australian government. The biggest global recession since the Great Depression has dragged Australia into recession, pushing up unemployment and wiping more than $200 billion off revenues. The choices we have taken in this budget will not jeopardise our recovery and they will see us return to surplus in 2015-16. Everyone has been asked to do their bit, especially those that have done well and can afford to contribute a bit more during these tough times. Not only are there savings but there are long-term structural reforms that will help put the budget back on a sustainable path—not just spend in the good years, but put it on a sustainable path. The Commonwealth Treasury says 200,000 Australians would be out of work if not for this stimulus and budget. We think this is a budget for the times, a budget that will stimulate jobs in our economy and prepare us for the future as well.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Could the minister give further detail of how the budget provides a fair go for pensioners? What additional weekly payments will go to pensioners, what is the estimate of how many pensioners in Australia will receive those benefits and how are those increases backed up by the recent Harmer review?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Moore. Last night the Treasurer announced a most significant increase for single pensioners of $32.49 per week.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The opposition may not support the increase for pensioners but we think it is one of the main positive features of this budget. Couples will receive an increase of $10.14 per week—major reform to assist Australian pensioners—and 3.3 million aged pensioners, disability pensioners, carers, wife pensioners and veteran income support recipients will benefit from increases in those pensions. In 12 years of Liberal government they did not get anything. We have moved to fix the problem with the base rate of the pensions to ensure pensioners have a decent standard of living. These reforms will improve the adequacy of the pension system, make it simpler and secure its sustainability into the future. We think all Australians should welcome these changes. (Time expired)

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Could the minister also explain to the Senate how in particular this budget will benefit carers and veterans? What additional payments will carers and veterans receive and how many carers and veterans are estimated to benefit from those increases?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Carers and veterans will also benefit from the significant increase in recurrent pension spending. The government recognises the selfless contribution made by carers every day. Around 140,000 carers who receive the carer payment or a related income support payment will receive the pension increases announced in the budget and around 500,000 carers across Australia will receive a new permanent carer supplement. The new annual carer supplement will also provide around 450,000 recipients of carer allowance with $600 for each person they care for. Flowing on from the Harmer review of pensions, the government has allocated $1.1 billion over four years to provide extra financial support in the Veterans’ Affairs portfolio. Over 320,000 service pensioners and war widows will benefit from the pension changes. These are the most significant reforms to the pension since it was introduced 100 years ago. (Time expired)

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Finance, Competition Policy and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Conroy. Is it a fact that two-thirds, $124 billion, of the Rudd Labor government’s debt bombshell of $188 billion is made up of new spending by the government since the election of November 2007?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The budget’s central task is nation building for recovery. It is a budget all about supporting jobs today by building the infrastructure Australia needs for tomorrow. It is a budget that shows up to 210,000 Australians would be out of work if those opposite had their way—210,000 Australians would be out of work if not for our stimulus and the nation building that we have engaged in. There is no way for those opposite to escape it. You would condemn 210,000 more Australians to being out of work if your policies were being pursued, and shame on you for that! All we have seen from the Liberal Party is their typical opportunism—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order in relation to the requirement that the minister be directly relevant to the question. We know that, with this minister, fibre is not connected to the node, but could I invite him to address the question that was actually asked, and that relates to whether or not two-thirds of the $188 billion is extra spending by the government since the last election. I would ask, Mr President, that you ask him to direct his comments to the question that was actually asked, not the one that he wished was asked.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Conroy has been relevant to the question and, if we want to use the phrase, ‘directly relevant to the question that has been asked’. Senator Conroy has more than a minute left to answer the question in relation to the budget which was delivered last night by Mr Swan. The question went to both facts and figures in relation to the budget, and Senator Conroy is on point in answering that question. He is providing sufficient information and still has a minute to go to provide additional information in respect of the question asked. I submit there is no point of order in respect of the matter raised by Senator Abetz.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, I draw your attention to the fact that there are 58 seconds left in which to answer the question that was raised by Senator Coonan in her primary question.

John Faulkner (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: I do not know if you have noticed—I certainly have—that there is an extraordinary amount of commentary coming from the other side of the chamber while Senator Conroy has been on his feet. I note that those asking questions from the opposition have been heard in respectful silence. I note that the minister has hardly been able to get a word in edgeways and, finally, I note, and ask you to rule on the fact, that I would not have taken this point of order except that, during the first sentence in answer to the primary question asked, Senator Abetz loudly interjected across the chamber, ‘Answer the question.’ I would respectfully suggest to you, Mr President, that the opposition have been most disorderly while Senator Conroy has been on his feet.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. There are 58 seconds remaining, Senator Conroy, for you to answer the primary question that has been asked by Senator Coonan.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those opposite seek to avoid their responsibilities in this chamber. They seek to avoid a genuine debate about the budget. They try to pretend they are asking questions about the budget and you are not in a situation, Mr President, where you can actually point out the facts as opposed to the propaganda from those opposite. Since the first stimulus payment announced in October, almost 70c in every dollar has gone to infrastructure. Those opposite are guilty of their typical opportunism and their typical negativity. They continue to walk both sides of the street. Let us be clear to those opposite: this morning, the shadow Treasurer nominated $25 billion worth of savings by less spending. On Thursday night the Leader of the Opposition has to deliver to that challenge. (Time expired)

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Finance, Competition Policy and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. How much money will need to be spent paying the interest on Labor’s massive and uncontrollable debt burden in the final year of the budget estimates?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Net interest payments are forecast to be $1.5 billion, or 0.1 per cent, in 2009-10; $4.7 billion, or 0.4 per cent, in 2010-11; $6 billion, or 0.5 per cent of GDP, in 2011-12; and $7.6 billion, or 0.6 per cent of GDP, in 2012-13. For all the oohs and aahs coming from the other side of the chamber, the undeniable fact is that Standard and Poor’s today exposed the hypocrisy, exposed the con job and exposed the fraud, and nobody better demonstrated that this morning than the shadow Treasurer. Show us your $25 billion worth of cuts on Thursday. You claim you are going to borrow less. You claim you are going to spend less on interest-free payments. Well, show us some— (Time expired)

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Finance, Competition Policy and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Now that Senator Conroy has confirmed the interest burden, every Australian—man, woman and child—now carries a Labor imposed debt of $9,000 each, with $500 interest each year. Isn’t this proof that the Rudd Labor government has simply lost control of the nation’s finances?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not surprising that those opposite have asked the question that they just asked, because this morning the Leader of the Opposition was again seeming to have some trouble actually deciding whether or not we were in surplus or deficit. He was asked specifically by Mr Uhlmann at 8.23 this morning:

CHRIS UHLMANN: But just quickly, you would have engaged in some stimulus spending and there would have been a deficit?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, there is no doubt. Look, I don’t think there is, it is very hard to imagine a circumstance in which the Budget this year would not be in deficit but it may have been in deficit by a very small amount or it may have been in surplus by a small amount with different policies.

So those opposite are engaging in correct tactics at question time. They are actually asking for information because the Leader of the Opposition has not got a clue. Mr Hockey has dropped him in it. Mr Hockey has dropped him into a $25 billion commitment for Thursday night. (Time expired)