Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Will the minister now admit that his threat to break up Telstra is just the latest desperate move by the government to dig itself out of the $43 billion National Broadband Network hole that it has created for itself, given that its NBN cannot possibly work without Telstra’s involvement?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Minchin for that question, and I congratulate him on what I think by now is probably his 155th press release without troubling the scorer.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Please answer the question, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He has made 155 deliveries and he has not troubled the scorer. In the transition to the NBN, the existing regime needs to be reformed to improve competition, strengthen consumer safeguards and remove unnecessary red tape. The historic reforms will fundamentally change existing telecommunications regulations in the national interest. They are critical to future growth, productivity and innovation across the Australian economy. I note that these reforms have been welcomed by the ACCC, consumer groups, telecommunications carriers and other senators in this chamber—even by some members of the coalition.

As I said yesterday, governments of both persuasions have avoided these necessary reforms. This has hindered the development of competition, investment and innovation in our telecommunications industry. It has hurt consumers and small businesses across the country. We are correcting the mistakes of the past, when opportunities to address Telstra’s highly integrated market position were missed. For years, telcos, industry experts and the regulator have been calling for fundamental reforms in telecommunications. These reforms address the structures of the telco market today. We cannot afford to wait for the completion of the NBN. (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Why is it that Telstra’s nine million customers, 1.4 million shareholders and 30,000 employees are the ones being forced to pay the price for bailing the government out of its $43 billion NBN fiasco?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is moments like these that I am drawn to the comments by John Durie in today’s Australian. In response to this question, I will quote Mr Durie. He said:

... Nick Minchin, is living on another planet ...

The old Telstra stooge needs to develop a new line of argument, and maybe shock us by coming up with his own policy.

That was from John Durie in the paper today.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Conroy, please resume your seat. Order! The time for debating this is post question time.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For the interest of Senator Minchin, this is called an iPhone. It actually produces a graph of the Telstra share price, of where it is today.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, you know that is disorderly.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What you are able to find on this piece of technology is that the Telstra share price has rebounded. (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Despite the share price having recovered, probably because the market does not believe that Senator Conroy could possibly be serious, is it not the case that the government’s bungling of its NBN over the last two years has cost Telstra shareholders $17 billion, as of right now? That is lost value since Labor came to office.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That was almost creative by Senator Minchin, because he tried to airbrush his support for, his appointment of, Mr Sol Trujillo out of the Hansard. Let me read to the Senate what Senator Minchin had to say just a few months ago on the departure of Mr Trujillo. He said:

Sol has provided strong leadership and vision in transforming Telstra, and has greatly enhanced the company’s profile both domestically and internationally.

Under that same regime appointed, supported and finally endorsed by Senator Minchin, we saw the share price of Telstra collapse from $5.20 to $3.20. That is in the period for which Senator Minchin said, ‘Sol has provided strong leadership.’ You just have to look at today’s newspapers to understand exactly how out of touch Senator Minchin is. There is an editorial in the Australian, and there is comment in the Advertiser, the Daily Telegraph, and the Fin Review. (Time expired)

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Can the minister outline to the Senate the consumer benefits that will flow from the government’s reform to telecommunications regulation? In particular, what are the issues that the reforms address and how will these impact on Australian consumers?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Bilyk for her question. Yesterday, the Rudd government introduced historic reforms to the existing telecommunications regime to make it work more effectively in the interests of all Australians. These reforms included measures to address the structure of the telecommunications market and the competition framework by addressing Telstra’s high level of integration and by streamlining and simplifying the existing regulatory framework to provide more certain and quicker outcomes for telecommunications companies. A vibrant and pro-competitive telecommunications industry will promote better consumer outcomes by driving lower costs, higher quality and more innovative services. This view has been widely supported, including by some of those opposite. I note the comments of Senator Williams this morning. Senator Williams’s understanding of these issues is clearly superior to those put by the shadow minister. Senator Williams gets out there among people in regional and rural Australia and he understands the failings that were left by the former government. He said, ‘In my opinion, in brief, it’s good for competition.’ How right Senator Williams is. His assessment is supported by key industry representatives, including iiNet Managing Director Michael Malone, who said yesterday:

The big winner from these reforms is the Australian consumer who will be able to gain access to fast, affordable and competitive broadband services.

These views are shared by Vodaphone Hutchison Australia CEO Nigel Dews, who stated:

The separation of Telstra’s wholesale and retail business is good news for competition and great news for customers.

(Time expired).

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister further outline to the Senate the benefits to Australian consumers and businesses that will result from the long overdue reforms of a consumer protection framework in the telecommunications sector? For example, what service guarantees and consumer safeguards does the legislation put in place in Australia’s national interest?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This government’s reforms will strengthen consumer safeguards to ensure that all Australians, including those in rural and regional Australia, have access to high quality telecommunications services. We will toughen the universal service obligation and the customer service guarantee to ensure that consumers have access to high quality telecommunications services, no matter where they live. Many in the community have expressed concerns about the removal of pay phones. Senator Bushby, for example, has complained that Telstra should not be allowed to remove pay phones from Burnie island—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Bruny Island—there is a typo here. In July, he said that losing access to public phone facilities would raise safety issues. He went on to say— (Time expired)

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Is the minister aware of claims that support the government’s reforms to the telecommunications competition framework and consumer safeguards for the benefit of all Australian consumers?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is fair to say that the government’s decision to introduce the most significant reforms to the telco sector has been met with overwhelming support, including from the regulator and consumer groups. The ACCC Chairman, Graeme Samuel, said in the Adelaide Advertiser today:

It is a quantum leap forward in terms of competition. It undoes all the mistakes of previous governments going back to 1992 and it unlocks competition in this sector for the future.

Gordon Renouf, Choice’s policy director, said:

Consumers will only gain benefits from improved productivity where there is fair competition among telco retailers.

I also note the comments of Allen Asher, the Chairman of the Australian Consumer Communications Action Network— (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is also to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Could the minister explain to the Senate the policy rationale for seeking to prevent Telstra from acquiring additional spectrum for advanced wireless broadband?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am happy to reiterate exactly what I said yesterday. What I said yesterday was that, because of policy failings that stretch back over two governments over 20 years, Telstra was allowed to become just about the most vertically integrated telco in the world. It is in all platforms. Many jurisdictions restrict the telco incumbent from being in all of the markets. You are allowed to be in the mobile market; you are allowed to be in the fixed line market. There are many restrictions around the world. As we move out of the copper era into the fibre future, the government have decided that we need to have a greater degree of competition. We want to redress the mistakes made by the two former governments, so we have said that we will restrict Telstra from moving into the next generation of spectrum—which will be auctioned in a few years—to ensure that it cannot dominate every single platform.

What we have seen is that Australians are suffering from the highest prices in the world for broadband, virtually, and the slowest speeds, virtually. That is not acceptable because it is selling out our children, our small businesses, our educational future, our health future and our energy efficiency future. It is selling out all of those sectors, not to mention the potential in growth in aged care services online. All of those sectors are waiting to step into the fibre future. They are waiting for the capacity to deliver incredibly exciting new applications that are available overseas. (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I ask the minister the minister to inform the Senate of the government’s estimate of the loss to taxpayers involved in the reduction of the value of spectrum caused by the exclusion of Telstra from future spectrum auctions.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is an entirely hypothetical question because Telstra have a choice about how they respond. They can choose to provide an enforceable undertaking to the ACCC and in that instance they would have access to the spectrum. Let us be very clear about this. The premise of the question from Senator Minchin is entirely flawed. There is a choice for Telstra.

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It’s in your bill.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Your policy is in chaos!

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I need order on both sides. The time for debating this issue is at the end of question time. Continue, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. The whole premise of the question is flawed. As the Townsville Bulletin says in its headline editorial, reform is vital. The Herald in Newcastle says: ‘Telstra feels the heat. Sooner or later something was going to have to be done about Telstra.’ (Time expired)

Nick Minchin (SA, Liberal Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I as a further supplementary question. I ask the minister why Telstra is being excluded from competing for additional wireless broadband spectrum when wireless broadband is a highly competitive market and Telstra’s competitors have the majority of the market share?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I explained in answer to Senator Minchin’s first question, this is about the most vertically integrated telco in the world. It is in every platform. It is in cable, in mobile, in fixed; it is in all the platforms. We are saying that it is time to introduce some competition into this market. I read Senator Coonan’s quote yesterday. As I repeated yesterday, we should have given a bit more thought to separating before we floated it, but to the country’s detriment she was rolled by Senator Minchin—who was interested in nothing more than propping up Telstra and flogging off its shares.

Helen Coonan (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Finance, Competition Policy and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order as to relevance and truth. I have never, ever said what Senator Conroy said I said. I was talking about the failure of Mr Beazley to structurally separate Telstra two decades ago and Senator Conroy knows that.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is not a point of order; it is a debating issue and it is a matter that can be debated later. If you feel you have been misrepresented, there is a time to stand at the end of taking note of answers to clarify that issue. Senator Conroy, you have 12 seconds remaining.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I indicated earlier, the premise for that is that the integrated nature of Telstra as it stands today has led to higher prices and slower speeds and if you want to fix it— (Time expired)