Senate debates
Wednesday, 18 November 2009
Questions without Notice
Asylum Seekers
2:12 pm
Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
My question is to the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Evans. How many refugees currently in Indonesia will be offered resettlement in 2009-10?
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It is a good question, because it goes to the heart of the reasons why we have reinvigorated the Bali process. We have a regional issue with unlawful movement among nations. Nations like Indonesia are saying that, as part of their commitment to action in the region, there ought to be a sharing of the burden of those persons moving through the region who are found to be refugees. That is why the previous government, the Howard government, sought to resettle people out of Indonesia, although in fairly small numbers. Of the 1,300 resettled in the last seven or eight years, 450 were resettled in Australia and the others in other resettlement countries.
Last year, I began negotiations with the Indonesians about how we should deal with the protracted caseloads that they had inside Indonesia. They have people there who have been assessed as refugees and who have not been referred for resettlement. As part of the Bali process, we have been discussing with the other governments involved how we should tackle these problems of people who are found to be refugees, people moving unlawfully and people-trafficking. There has been an increased commitment to resettle people out of Indonesia. We have made it clear that we and other resettlement countries will look to take more than we have in the past to assist them and share the burden of dealing with these problems around the region. They have committed to anti-people-smuggling measures. They have committed to the Bali process.
Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. As you would know, Mr President, my question was specifically regarding how many refugees will be offered resettlement in 2009-10. Since we have some 13 seconds left, I wonder whether it would be possible to bring the minister to order.
John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Evans, I draw your attention—
John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order! When there is silence, we will proceed. I call Senator Ludwig.
Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, on the point of order: the minister has been—and if the opposition had been listening carefully then they would realise this—answering the question, precisely the exact question. The minister had gone through how the Bali process had been reinvigorated, how there had been a national commitment to sharing the burden and, in addition to that, the precise issues surrounding how you then work through this matter. The minister has been dealing with that in a directly relevant way. It is a shame that you then seek to use the opportunity to raise it as a political message. What the minister has been doing is providing an exact answer to your question.
John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order! Senator Evans, I draw your attention to the question, and I remind you that there are 13 seconds remaining to answer the question.
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
As I was saying, there is a commitment by Australia and other nations to share the burden and to assist the Indonesians with resettlement out of Indonesia. It is a process that the former government was committed to, but we have looked to engage more actively— (Time expired)
Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
I am sure that if the minister does not know the number, under the conventions in this place we would be quite happy for him to take it on notice. Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Will the queuejumpers from the Oceanic Viking take the places of other genuine refugees, who otherwise would have been offered resettlement in Australia but who have not been given the Rudd government’s special deal?
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Despite attempts to create hysteria around these issues, with the use of loaded and emotive language, the situation—
Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Just answer the question!
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Senator Abetz, will you just pipe down for a second; and I will.
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Thank you, Mr President. Interjections about ‘queuejumpers’ et cetera do not actually assist with the process. What we have indicated in the agreement between us and the Indonesian government, which was put in writing and shown to those on the Oceanic Viking, is that, if found to be genuine refugees, they would be offered resettlement in resettlement countries. There was an understanding that they would be resettled and they would go to resettlement countries. The UNHCR will engage with those who disembark, assess their asylum claims and, if they are found to be refugees, refer them to resettlement countries, like Australia, who will make decisions about looking to resettle them. (Time expired)
Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the Rudd government’s special deal, which rewards people-smugglers and asylum seekers who hold Australian authorities to ransom, directly threaten the UNHCR processes and the UN refugee convention?
Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Yes. It is a one-word answer.
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
If you want a one-word answer: no.
Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
What a dodo!
John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Order! Debating across the chamber is disorderly. When there is silence we will proceed. I am waiting to call another senator for a question.
2:18 pm
Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Evans. Given the boat currently holding 255 Sri Lankans in Merak were intercepted by Indonesia at Australia’s request, and we now hear that, without any assessment of these people’s claims by the UNHCR, Indonesia is looking to deport these people back to Sri Lanka, what assurances, if any, did the Australian government delegation seek or receive during the visit to Sri Lanka last week that asylum seekers sent back to Sri Lanka would be kept safe and not subject to any form of persecution from the government of Sri Lanka?
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
It is true that we cooperated with Indonesia and encouraged them to intercept the vessel that is now docked at Merak. And, as I understand it, the 250 or so people who are on board are still refusing to disembark. But that is a matter that is in the hands of the Indonesian authorities. There are no Australian authorities involved in that process. I understand that the IOM has been involved, but that involvement may have ceased. There has been, as I understand it, some trouble on the boat, and some disagreement. I think that actually reached some level of violence the other day, but they have been there for a long time. The Indonesian government’s position, as I understand it, is that they will be processed once they disembark the vessel. That is obviously in their hands. I do not have any particular assurances as to how those people will be treated, because we have not been engaged actively in the handling of those persons on that boat in Merak.
What I can say to you, though, is that the press reports about them threatening to deport these people without proper refugee assessment beforehand are just that—claims in the press. I would point out to you that, to my knowledge, the Indonesians have not in the past sought to deport people before they have had asylum claims considered. All I can tell you is that the experience we have had with the Indonesians is that they have made safe places available for people inside Indonesia, they have allowed UNHCR and IOM access to those persons and they have allowed people who are seeking asylum to lodge claims with the UNHCR. So, while I have seen the press reports, as you have, I have no basis for— (Time expired)
Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I thank the minister for his answer. Given that the people onboard the Oceanic Viking will now be detained in Indonesian detention centres, how can Australia knowingly now allow children to be locked behind bars? Does the government believe that this is appropriate?
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
To be frank, Senator, you have just made another leap with, as I understand it, no basis for those claims. Do you know that children in Merak are about to be detained in detention centres? Because I certainly do not.
Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
On a point of order, Mr President: I referenced the Oceanic Viking.
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, I would like you to take on notice some consideration of supplementaries that refer to different subjects. That is why I got confused. If the question is about the Oceanic Viking, the Indonesian authorities have stated publicly that they will be making accommodation arrangements for women and children in accordance with their normal policy which seeks to provide appropriate accommodation for them. At the moment, the small number of women and children on the vessel have not disembarked, but we have advised the Indonesians of our views on those matters. We have always advocated that children should not be held in detention centres. Clearly, this is a matter for the Indonesian government— (Time expired)
Sarah Hanson-Young (SA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. The reports from the Indonesian government themselves suggest that they would not be accommodating refugees or asylum seekers who disembarked from the Oceanic Viking in any detention facilities other than the detention centres. Therefore, does the Australian government believe it is appropriate that children be detained in this manner?
Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source
My advice is that women and children, when they disembark the Oceanic Viking, will be accommodated in appropriate accommodation. That is our understanding. I would envisage that to be a separate facility from the Tanjung Pinang detention centre, but this is obviously a matter for the Indonesian government. Our view is that they would be best housed elsewhere, and it is my understanding that the Indonesian government will make appropriate accommodation arrangements.