Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Climate Change and Water, Senator Wong. Can the minister advise the Senate whether the Canadian government has decided to defer further consideration of its climate change legislation until after the meeting at Copenhagen?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am happy to give the good senator a response about action on emissions trading in a whole range of countries. He might be interested to know that the United States President, President Obama, has confirmed his commitment—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I draw your attention to the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am advised that the Canadian government is working to introduce an emissions trading scheme and has committed to developing and implementing a North America wide cap-and-trade system. I am advised that the US President—

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to the issue of relevance. My question specifically asked: have the Canadians deferred further consideration until after Copenhagen?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order, Senator Wong was talking about the advice she had received about what Canada was doing in responding to the threat of climate change. She was directly relevant. Senator Joyce ought to listen rather than try to have another crack at asking his question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister has one minute and 29 seconds remaining to answer the question. I call the minister.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, the President of the United States has also confirmed his commitment to a cap-and-trade scheme. He has. I can also indicate—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order in relation to the requirement that a minister be directly relevant under sessional orders. The question asked was not about the United States; it was solely about Canada. Mr President, I would invite you to require the minister to be directly relevant or to resume her seat.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order, not only was the senator relevant but also she indicated in the first part of her response that the Canadians were interested in a North American cap-and-trade scheme. So it is perfectly relevant to talk about other North American countries as part of the sort of scheme that Canada is envisaging. So the answer is right on the point and the points of order are, quite frankly, frivolous.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Since the last point of order 10 seconds have elapsed. I have been waiting to hear how the answer evolves. I draw the minister’s attention to the question. There is one minute and 19 seconds remaining for her answer. I cannot tell the minister how to answer the question, as I have said from time to time.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, the Canadian government is working to introduce an emissions trading scheme and has committed to developing and implementing a North America wide cap-and-trade scheme. I would also make the point that President Obama has also indicated his commitment to a cap-and-trade scheme. But let us understand what is happening here, because we have all the ‘rabids’ on the other side coming out now. Let us understand what is happening here.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, once again I rise on a point of order going to relevance under standing order 194. I fail to see what President Obama has to do with Canada, unless he has become the President of Canada.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. As I have said, I cannot instruct the minister how to answer the question. I call the minister. The minister has 53 seconds remaining.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What we know, Mr President, is that Senator Joyce is not asking that question because he is interested in Canada. He is not interested in asking about the US because it does not help his argument. We know that all he is interested in is blocking action. All he wants to do is to ensure that there is no action on climate change—aided and abetted by Senator Abetz.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, I draw your attention to the question. Senator Wong, you have 35 seconds remaining.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, as I said, I have answered this question. The Canadians have indicated that they are working to introduce an emissions trading scheme. They have also indicated that they are committed to developing and implementing a North America wide cap-and-trade system. I would have thought the fact that the US has also committed to a cap-and-trade system might be of relevance to senators interested in this issue.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. All the way through her answer to that question the minister failed to answer whether the government will defer this until after Copenhagen. But she did refer to the United States, so let us go there. Can the minister also confirm that the Senate leaders in the United States—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right! Senator Joyce is entitled to be heard in silence.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am amazed to find that we could not get an answer to my previous question, so let me try this next one. Can the minister confirm that the Senate leaders in the United States have also confirmed that they will defer consideration of their legislation on climate change until after Copenhagen?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, if the US legislation does not get passed this year it is not because the United States government wanted to wait until after Copenhagen; it is because they had a traffic jam of reform in their Senate. But, Mr President, you know what we have: we have sceptics putting up roadblocks at every turn—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I know it is the end of the week and people are getting very excited, but I need a bit of order so I can hear the answer to the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It might be useful to remember and to remind those at that end of the chamber, and Senator Bernardi, that the United States in fact started a year after Australia did—in fact they are moving very fast to get to this point. I will say this: if Senator Joyce is saying to the government that he would pass an ETS after a cap-and-trade scheme has passed the US Senate then let us hear it—because I would suggest that that is not his position; his position is ‘never’.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given that Canada and the United States have both now adopted the position represented by the coalition here to defer legislation until after Copenhagen, will the minister advise why Labor would disadvantage Australians and Australian working families with a massive multibillion tax by seeking to legislate their flawed—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Joyce, just stop. I cannot hear your question because of the interjections.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think he should start again.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I want him to continue.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that Canada and the United States have now adopted coalition policy to defer legislation until after Copenhagen, will the minister advise why Labor would disadvantage Australia and Australian working families through this massive multibillion dollar tax grab to legislate their flawed CPRS Bill before Copenhagen?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This government wants to legislate because this country has had enough delays in action on climate change. We have had enough delay on this issue. What is so disappointing about Senator Joyce and some of the Liberal Party senators in this place is that they all went to the election with a commitment to act on climate change which they have since crab-walked away from. Senator Joyce comes in here asking questions about other nations, and everyone in this chamber knows that it would not matter who legislated, it does not matter that President Obama is committed, it does not matter that the G8 have committed, it does not matter that the G20 have committed to action Senator Joyce would still say no because he is simply in denial on this issue.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.