Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Climate Change and Water, Senator Wong. Minister, what is the ultimate test of the effectiveness of any policy on climate change?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Lundy for the question because I have been—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, there is not much use starting. There is a debate across the chamber. Senator Macdonald and Senator Sterle!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Lundy for the question because I have been waiting with bated breath for those opposite to ask the relevant minister about their policy. I have been waiting for the people on that side in this chamber to defend the great policy that Mr Hunt drafted for them, but I have been waiting in vain. Perhaps it is because they do not like it themselves. Senator Lundy asked what the test was.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! To both sides: the time for debating this is at the end of question time. When there is order we will proceed. I draw the attention of senators to the fact that I am waiting for there to be silence so that the answer can be given by Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Lundy asked what the ultimate test was of the effectiveness of climate change policy. Surely we in this chamber would agree that ultimately the test is whether it reduces the risk for our children, because that is what this debate is about. You reduce the risk of climate change for future generations by reducing the carbon pollution that actually causes climate change. It is quite extraordinary that we see from the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Abbott, a climate con job that not only does not reduce carbon pollution but actually ensures that carbon pollution will grow. That is extraordinary. The people who do not believe in climate change have, as the alternative government, put forward a policy to the Australian people that actually says: ‘Guess what? We’re going to spend billions of dollars but emissions will actually grow. We’re going to spend billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money to ensure that by 2020 Australia’s contribution to climate change will actually get worse.’ That is the opposition’s position on climate change. Rather than achieving the five per cent emission reduction that they have already signed up to, the Liberal climate change con job will actually see emissions increased— (Time expired)

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence I will ask you to proceed, Senator Lundy.

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister advise the Senate whether there is a cost-free way to tackle climate change?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no cost-free way to tackle climate change. As former Prime Minister Howard said three years ago:

... the idea that you can bring about the changes that are needed ... without there being any impact at all at any time on the cost to the consumer, is quite unrealistic.

On that occasion at least Mr Howard was telling the truth, unlike the current Leader of the Opposition. The fact is that, under the government’s scheme, polluters pay and we help Australian families and Australian businesses. Under Mr Abbott’s scheme—his climate con job—taxpayers are slugged instead of the big polluters.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Bernardi interjecting—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Northern and Remote Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, resume your seat. Senator Bernardi and Senator Macdonald, constant interjection is disorderly. When we have silence we will proceed.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This climate con job simply proves that Mr Abbott is dishonest when it comes to this policy. He has put forward a policy which will ensure Australia’s emissions grow by 13 per cent by 2020. But what are you supposed to expect from a man who believes that climate change is absolute crap?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: referring to somebody in the other place as being dishonest is clearly a reflection. I am astounded that it was not noted. In the event that it was not, I draw it to your attention. The minister should withdraw it.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Abetz, that was not what I heard. I thought I heard the words ‘not dishonest’. I might be incorrect.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could I invite Senator Wong to actually be honest and tell us.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Wait a minute. I am just saying what I heard. Senator Wong, resume your seat. One of the difficulties I have up here is the fact that there is constant interjection, which makes it difficult to hear on some occasions. I am just saying what I thought I had heard and I did not think that what I heard from here was an improper reflection. I ask Senator Wong to make the point clear as to whether there was an improper reflection on a person in another place.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I did assert that Mr Abbott was dishonest in relation to this policy. If it offends, I withdraw.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is withdrawn.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Abetz interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was withdrawn.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Abetz interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I understood it was an unconditional withdrawal.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, have you withdrawn?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have withdrawn.

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Minister, would you advise the Senate on funding for climate change policies?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Abbott and Senator Joyce have confirmed that their climate change con job will in fact cost Australian taxpayers some three times more than the government’s policy. It will cost three times more over the next 10 years. In fact, Mr Abbott’s own apparent adviser, Mr Price from Frontier Economics, confirmed that this would involve either changing taxes or changing expenditure. I note that Mr Abbott has refused to rule out cutting funding to hospitals and cutting funding to defence, and Senator Joyce has refused to rule out cutting funding to schools. The challenge for the opposition, for a policy that is three times more expensive and that ensures that emissions keep rising, is to tell the Australian people which school, which hospital or which defence program they are going to cut to pay for their policy—a policy that slugs taxpayers and lets polluters off scot-free.