Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Given the announcement yesterday regarding a heads of agreement being reached between Telstra and NBN Co. on the rollout of the National Broadband Network, can the minister inform the Senate on this announcement and explain the benefits of this agreement?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Lundy for her question and for her ongoing interest in this area. Yesterday’s announcement that Telstra and NBN Co. have reached a financial heads of agreement is a historic moment for the Australian telecommunications sector. It will be remembered as the moment the Australian government and the industry joined together to revolutionise the telecommunications sector in this country.

The discussions between Telstra, NBN Co. and the government have been complex and at times very tough. This agreement provides us with a clear pathway to take Australia from the copper age to the fibre future. It also provides us with a clear pathway towards reforming the telecommunications sector to achieve structural separation—a significant and long overdue microeconomic policy reform that will unleash a new wave of competition and innovation in Australia. This agreement paves the way for a faster, cheaper, more efficient rollout of the National Broadband Network with faster take-up. It means that taxpayers will benefit because the overall cost of building the network will be reduced and there will be higher take-up rates and revenue for NBN Co. A greater proportion of the NBN rollout will be underground, with less overhead cabling, and Australia’s largest telecommunications company, Telstra, will become a participant in the rollout of the NBN— (Time expired

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, what does the agreement mean for competition in the telecommunications sector and, in turn, for consumers of these services?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The NBN will transform the structure of the telecommunications sector to once and for all unleash genuine competition and innovation for the benefit of all Australian consumers and businesses. It will lead to cheaper and faster broadband for all Australians. Yesterday’s agreement involves a progressive migration of customers from Telstra’s copper and cable networks to NBN Co.’s new, wholesale-only fibre network, plus the reuse of suitable Telstra infrastructure, including pits, ducts and backhaul fibre. In effect, once the NBN rollout is complete and Telstra has completed the migration of its customers to the NBN, Australia will be served— (Time expired)

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. What has been the reaction to yesterday’s agreement?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The reaction to yesterday’s announcement has been overwhelmingly positive. For example, Steve Dalby, the General Manager of Regulatory Affairs for iiNet, one of Telstra’s competitors, said: ‘For the community to get access to higher speeds, it needed the entire industry to be part of it. It is great news.’ Matt Healy, head of regulatory and government affairs at Macquarie Telecom, said:

The removal of uncertainty in the sector is going to benefit all parties and Macquarie welcomes the day when we compete with Telstra on the NBN where their only advantage is their size and not their monopoly power; the field of battle is purely on servicing customers.

This support contrasts with the continued negative opposition from Tony Abbott and the Liberals. (Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. I refer to the announcement yesterday about a so-called deal between NBN Co. and Telstra, which was followed today—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cormann is entitled to be heard in silence.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer to the announcement yesterday about a so-called deal between NBN Co. and Telstra, which was followed today by Telstra’s advice to shareholders that, ‘A very significant amount of work must still be done on many complex issues’ before any binding commitment is made and that, ‘There is no guarantee it will progress to completion.’ Isn’t this just another example of the government being all talk and no action, or can the minister guarantee here today that a deal will be done before the election?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Cormann for his ongoing interest in this portfolio area. The heads of agreement signed yesterday between NBN Co. and Telstra provides for the progressive migration of customers from Telstra’s copper and HFC networks to the new, wholesale-only fibre network to be built and operated by NBN Co. The reuse of suitable Telstra infrastructure by NBN Co., including pits, ducts and backhaul fibre, as it starts to roll out its new network, will avoid inefficient infrastructure duplication—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: I asked the minister a very specific question—that is, whether he could guarantee that a deal with Telstra would be finalised before the election. I did not ask him to go through the wish list that he is trying to roll out, which is all no talk and no action.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have two matters to raise regarding the point of order. Firstly, the last matter raised—which was simply a reiteration of his question—is impermissible, and the senator should be pulled up for that because it is not a point of order. The first matter raised by Senator Cormann was relevance. The minister has been relevant to the question. The question was about NBN Co. and Telstra’s heads of agreement that was announced yesterday. That was the answer that the minister had been dealing with. Of course, the minister has been comprehensively dealing with that and has not fallen outside that. So I humbly submit that the minister has been directly relevant to the question asked.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe the minister is answering the question. I cannot instruct the minister or tell the minister how to answer the question. The minister has one minute and 90 seconds remaining to address the question.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a significant step in ensuring the participation of Telstra in the NBN rollout. But there is more work to be done. The heads of agreement provides a framework for the development of more detailed contracts towards a definitive agreement, which will involve greater specification of the arrangement. This step is typical and common for most commercial transactions. It would not be possible to reach a final agreement without this step—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You wouldn’t even understand a complex commercial transaction, Stephen.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are a range of conditions that will need to be satisfied before the detailed agreements come into effect—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In other words: there is no deal at all.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no deal.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You wouldn’t begin to understand a complex commercial deal.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brandis and Senator Cormann! Order! Senator Cormann, you asked the question; you are getting the answer. It might not be the answer you would like, but I cannot tell the minister—as I have said previously—how to answer the question. You will have the opportunity to ask supplementary questions.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

These include shareholder agreement. As everyone has made clear from the day the negotiations commenced, this will ultimately become binding when the shareholders vote yes or no. That is required. Conduct of due diligence inquiries and obtaining appropriate regulatory clearances—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are completely out of your depth.

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Says George!

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Resume your seats on both sides. Constant interjections are disorderly and shouting across the chamber is disorderly. Senator Conroy, continue.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. The approval of final definitive agreements will see Australia’s largest telecommunications company, Telstra, become a participant— (Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the minister is not prepared to guarantee a deal will be finalised before the election, and given that the government is not even a party to the financial heads of agreement announced yesterday, how can the government claim that yesterday’s so-called deal with Telstra will deliver even a single new NBN service to Australian households?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, the final approval, after the definitive agreement, will see Australia’s largest telco, Telstra, become a participant in the rollout and, most likely, NBN’s largest customer. Millions of Telstra customers will come across onto the National Broadband Network. Through the migration of Telstra’s customers to the NBN, Australia will benefit significantly from a national wholesale-only broadband network delivering structural separation of Telstra.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But it is not going to happen, Stephen. Telstra told its shareholders that this morning.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brandis, you have got no idea at all.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! This is not the time to debate the issue across the chamber. The time for doing that is at the end of question time.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a significant microeconomic reform which will benefit the whole— (Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Isn’t it true that there is in fact no deal with Telstra and that, contrary to the spin from the Rudd Labor government yet again, Telstra was correct when it advised its shareholders today, ‘There is no guarantee it will progress to completion’?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a little hard to answer a question which is a statement of the obvious. It is very obvious that when we sign the heads of agreement—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, resume your seat. This is not the time for senators to be shouting across the chamber. Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When we signed the agreement, it was made clear that final approval requires regulatory shareholder votes and a range of other legal matters to be finalised in the long-form agreement.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Northern and Remote Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is very obvious.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, it is.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You do not understand, Stephen, because you are out of your depth.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, resume your seat. If senators want to take up question time shouting across the chamber, that is their prerogative.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I guess what really irks those opposite is that they were incapable of reaching an agreement with Telstra when they were in government. They had 18 failed broadband plans—I know 18 sounds like a lot but it was indeed 18—including that dog that Senator Macdonald continues to hanker after, called OPEL. OPEL defied the laws of physics. They had 18 failed broadband plans and they want to turn back the clock. (Time expired)