Brett Mason (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Education and School Curriculum Standards) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question without notice is to Senator Carr, the Minister representing the Minister for Education. Under the Building the Education Revolution Program how does the government independently assure itself that an individual school building project is good value for money? That is, against what standard or benchmark does the Commonwealth government assess projects in relation to value for money?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When we have silence we will proceed. The time to debate the issue is at the end of question time.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Mason for his question. He would be only too well aware of the steps that are taken by the government—

Bill Heffernan (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You don’t know the answer.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, what was that?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, ignore interjections and address your comments to the chair.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thought I heard something from Senator Williams, who has been speaking at length of late on matters to do—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, just address the question and address your comments to the chair.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order: I was not saying a thing, and I ask that the minister retract that.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. Senator Carr, you have a minute and 50 remaining to answer the question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Mason is only too aware of the lengthy process the government has undertaken to ensure that there is value for money in the implementation of the Building the Education Revolution program. The Building the Education Revolution program is the largest single investment in public education the Commonwealth of Australia has ever seen. It has provided a massive expansion in educational opportunities for every child in this country—a proposition that the Liberal opposition have opposed. They have opposed providing those opportunities to Australian students across the 10,000 schools in this country.

On top of the extraordinary length of measures that this government has taken, the BER Implementation Taskforce has been established to provide additional assurance to the Australian public that the BER program is being implemented in accordance with the guidelines that the government itself established for achieving value for money. This government is concerned about any allegations of any impropriety in the Building the Education Revolution program.

To date, widespread practices of over-quoting, over-charging or fraudulent behaviour have not been found. The evidence simply is not there for the claims that the opposition is making. Nonetheless, it is open to the taskforce to refer potential breaches of the law, regulations or guidelines to appropriate authorities for investigation. (Time expired)

Brett Mason (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Education and School Curriculum Standards) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Last night at a Senate committee hearing, the Commonwealth Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations gave evidence that, out of more than 10,000 school building projects, the department had never refused to approve a project on the grounds that it did not provide good value for money. Can the minister therefore guarantee that each one of the more than 10,000 approved projects is providing taxpayers with good value for money?

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In fact, there are 23,850 BER projects that have been approved in around 9,000 separate schools in Australia. As of 30 April, 8,092 projects were under construction at 6,121 schools around the country. Of course, there are some other projects that are yet to commence. I am looking forward to the answer to the question, ‘Which of these projects is the Liberal Party going to stop?’ Which ones are you going to stop? How many of the openings are you going to turn up to?

Bill Heffernan (NSW, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order, this is the greatest rort in Australia’s political history.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Heffernan, that was not a point of order. Resume your seat.

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! There needs to be silence on both sides.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The federal member for Calare, John Cobb, was recently photographed with our colleague Senator Hutchins at the opening of a school. It is quite clear that the opposition is only too happy—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: the answer is utterly irrelevant to the question that was asked. The question asked whether, in light of the evidence last night that there had never been a refusal, the minister would guarantee that every one of the projects provided value for money. Commenting on photographs being taken of members of parliament in front of buildings is completely irrelevant to that question and you know it, Mr President.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I would like to respond to that point of order except I do not know what it was. For half a dozen times in a row Rumpole over there has stood up and decided to just give a speech, and you have Senator Heffernan interjecting while pretending to raise points of order. Mr President, I ask you to not only rule out these points of order but also ask them to actually raise a point of order before they start giving a speech.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind senators that if they wish to debate these issues, the appropriate time to debate them is at the end of question time. The time is given to allow motions to take note of answers that are given and for people to make their appropriate points. I draw the minister’s attention to the fact that there are 15 seconds remaining to answer the question.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There were three rounds under the P3 element of the BER, during which there were initially hundreds of projects rejected, Senator Mason. These projects might have been rejected because the facilities were not eligible. (Time expired)

Brett Mason (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Education and School Curriculum Standards) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the minister still have confidence in the government’s hand-picked head of the BER Implementation Taskforce, Mr Orgill, when he admitted during last night’s Senate hearing that, after seven weeks on the job, he has not even read the full report into the BER by the Auditor-General, which is crucial to his work given the conclusive and damning evidence by the Audit Office that the government has not been able to assure itself and taxpayers— (Time expired)

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can advise the Senate is that the BER Implementation Taskforce, led by Mr Orgill, is categorising complaints it has received and is undertaking an extensive school visits program to investigate those complaints. The task force returns its first report—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr, resume your seat. I remind senators that shouting is disorderly.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Special Minister of State and Scrutiny of Government Waste) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And so is this minister’s answer.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind senators that shouting is disorderly during question time.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can advise the Senate of the facts—not the opinions; the facts. The fact is that the task force returns its first report in August and it may of course lead to further ongoing recommendations to responsible authorities relating to the improvements or actions that need to be taken. The fact also is that the opposition has opposed this program, yet is only too happy to turn up to the openings and claim credit for any initiatives that are taken to improve opportunities for Australian children. It is time for the opposition to come clean. Which of these programs will they stop? Which schools will they prevent from getting access to the biggest program the Commonwealth has ever seen in terms of improving opportunities for the children of this country? It is time for the opposition to come clean. It is time for the opposition to state what its position is. Do you support children getting these services or not? (Time expired)