Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer and representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency. What will be the net impact of the Gillard government’s carbon tax on global emissions?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The senator should probably recall that his party has signed up to the same target range of reductions that the government has.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Differently, though.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I take his interjection. The only difference, of course, is that the way they want to get there is more expensive for Australian taxpayers and more expensive for the Australian economy. It is a more expensive way to deal with the adjustment. The question assumes a range of facts that are not true and fails to recognise that Senator Cormann’s own party has signed up to the target of five per cent lower than 2000 levels. The only difference is—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are different ways of reducing emissions. You are shifting them overseas.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not surprised that you are shouting, Senator, because it is pretty embarrassing. The only difference is that your policy costs more. If you do not think Australia should reduce its emissions—which is implicit in your question—then you should go into your party room and argue against Mr Hunt and the party policy, because you have signed up to the same targets.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At least we discuss our policies in the party room.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Keep shouting, Senator Cormann, because really you have nothing to say. As you go around Australia continuing to peddle this scare campaign, I challenge you to be honest with the Australian people and say: ‘We try to walk on both sides of the street. We actually do want to reduce emissions, but we’re going to pretend we don’t for the purposes of running this scare campaign.’ I challenge you to be up-front with Australians that your policy is going to cost some $30 billion—nearly three times more than you told them at the last election—some $720 per Australian family. Those are the facts when it comes to your policy, Senator.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Is it not true that, while maximising our production of LNG would increase emissions in Australia, it would help reduce global emissions by more by displacing less environmentally friendly energy sources?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is just so simplistic.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You obviously do not understand the connection.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, I am trying to listen to Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I am happy to answer the supplementary question, but I would invite you to consider whether it has anything to do with the primary question. How it is a supplementary to the first question really takes some imagination. If the question is whether the government regards LNG as an important industry, then yes we do. I think that is reflected in how we have approached that industry, both in the context of the climate change portfolio and in the context of Minister Ferguson’s portfolio. If Senator Cormann is somehow trying to suggest that the government does not recognise the importance of that industry then, again, the facts do not stack up in his favour. I think anybody looking at the way in which this government has approached this issue would know that we do recognise the importance of that industry.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given that the minister has not been able to advise the Senate on what the net impact of the Gillard government’s carbon tax would be on global emissions, I ask: why do you want Australians to pay more for their electricity, petrol and groceries—and lose their jobs—for no reduction in global emissions?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is a difficulty when you write the third question long before you have heard the answer to the other questions and do not have the ability to change it on your feet. Senator, if that is your proposition, you would not sign up to the target. The real question is, why do you want people to pay more? Why do you want people in this country to pay more to make the same target that you have signed up to, just as we have? Why do you want Australian families to pay more?

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We are doing it a different way and you know it.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, you are doing it a different way. I take that interjection.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We are doing it a better way.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, it is not a better way. It is a more expensive way.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I spoke yesterday about people debating these questions when it is time to listen to the answer.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The real question is, why is a party that used to believe in market mechanisms and in sensible economic policy signed up to a policy that is all about picking winners and that is inefficient and more expensive. That is the question. If Senator Cormann wants to continue to ask me questions on this, perhaps he should front up and explain why. (Time expired)