Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Wong. Why will details of the carbon tax revenue and related spending estimates from 1 July 2012 onwards not be included in the next budget when $12 billion in mining tax revenue and related spending estimates from the underdeveloped and now disbanded resource super profits tax—to take effect on the same day, 1 July 2012—were already included in last year’s budget? Is it because the government has done even less homework on the carbon tax than it had done on the mining tax before announcing it, or is it because the government has something to hide?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Treasurer has made clear in public statements already—so I am surprised that the question is being asked—that—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am asking you why.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Interjecting after the question has been asked does not assist.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Treasurer has made clear publicly that we will be accounting in the normal way, when final decisions have been made, for the introduction of a carbon price, and we will do that. But, as Senator Cormann well knows, we have not made a decision about price or about coverage, other than the exception of agriculture, which I spoke about earlier this week. We have not yet made decisions, because we want to consult with industry about industry assistance, about transitional assistance and about managing energy security in the electricity sector.

Let us get some facts and some sensible policy discussion into this debate. This is a ridiculous question. It is utterly ridiculous to try to make politics out of the fact that the Treasurer has said, quite self-evidently, that if we have not made a final decision about how a carbon price will be effected—the key decisions about price and so forth—then of course we will adjust the budget figures after those decisions have been made. It is a bit like the question you asked yesterday or the day before; I cannot recall—it is completely inconsistent, completely incoherent and driven only by your political biases.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the minister’s assertion about the government’s so-called strict fiscal rules, which include a two per cent cap on real spending growth. Will the government blow this cap in 2012-13 as a result of the billions of dollars in new carbon tax related spending?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have made clear in this chamber for some time, as has my predecessor, as has the Prime Minister and as has the Treasurer, the nature of the fiscal strategy and the fiscal rules. The two per cent cap on expenditure is one of the fiscal rules, along with returning the budget to surplus in 2012-13. It would be useful, perhaps, if those senators on the other side who have an interest in matters economic and fiscal could turn their sights to the lack of fiscal responsibility being demonstrated by the opposition. We see, yet again, opposition senators putting forward policies that are not costed and not funded, adding to the $10.6 billion black hole.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann, you can beat your chest and yell all you like, but the facts speak for themselves.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order, are you seriously going to rule that what Senator Wong has been saying for the last 15 or 20 seconds has any relevance whatsoever to the question?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am listening closely to the answer the minister is giving. The minister still has 13 seconds remaining. If the minister has anything additional to add to her answer to the question, she is invited to do so. I draw the minister’s attention to the question. If the minister does not have anything to add, then the minister may resume her seat.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I have said, the fiscal strategy does include a two per cent cap on real growth as the economy returns to above-trend growth. This is a more restrictive cap on real growth and expenditure than—(Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given that the government has previously claimed more than $40 billion in new Labor Party taxes as ‘savings’, can an $11 billion-plus carbon tax in 2012-13 really be classified as a budget saving or as what it is: a great big new tax on everything?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again I say, we have a fiscal strategy. It has been articulated very clearly in the budget papers by the Prime Minister, by my predecessor, by the Treasurer and by me.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will take that interjection; I have just been described as dishonest.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That will need to be withdrawn.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What is being dishonest, Senator Cormann, is pretending you are a party of fiscal responsibility and being so innumerate that you have a $10.6 billion black hole in your election costings.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you should withdraw that, too.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We need to get through the questions. I like to see people get the opportunity to ask a question—

Steve Fielding (Victoria, Family First Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Fielding interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is it your turn today, Senator Fielding? No? It is Senator Xenophon. Never mind, Senator Xenophon, you can sit down—I am just thinking of you for later in the day! It is the most excited I have seen you for a long time, Senator Xenophon. Senator Wong, there are 39 seconds remaining for your answer to Senator Cormann’s question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am just trying to get over that picture of Senator Xenophon! The opposition is entitled to ask questions about the government’s fiscal strategy. I accept that, but I think the opposition and anybody listening should perhaps consider whether or not the opposition itself is going to demonstrate some fiscal responsibility. The fact is that you have not. With a $10.6 billion black hole, you continue to introduce bills with a fiscal impact that you are not offsetting. You cannot preach fiscal responsibility if you refuse to practise it.