Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Senator Ludwig. Prior to announcing the suspension of live cattle trade to Indonesia, what consultation or discussions did the government have with industry? With which producers, which exporters and which industry organisations did the government consult? When and how did this consultation take place?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is clear that industry has been on notice on this issue for some time. My office and I have been talking with industry about how to improve animal welfare outcomes in Indonesia and other markets as well. What the industry repre­sentatives and industry bodies together have brought back to my office has never gone far enough or provided us sufficient confidence that they would be able to deal with the live animal export industry and ensure the animal welfare outcomes that we would accept. No-one would accept the animal welfare outcomes that we saw on the ABC Four Corners program.

This government has been working closely with industry to ensure that we can continue to have a live animal export industry. It has been working with them not only at the time of the ABC program but post that as well, continuously, to ensure that we can highlight the fact that this industry needs to take responsibility for the animal welfare outcomes in Indonesia. This industry has allowed the self-regulatory approach to continue without the necessary checks and balances that are required. If you look at the actions that I have taken, you see an immediate investigation into the footage and evidence was undertaken by the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. Nothing the minister has said is directly relevant to the only issue raised in the question: what consultations were there with the industry about the suspension? Generalities about consultation with the industry about animal welfare are not directly relevant to the only issue: what consultation was there about the suspension? Now the minister is meandering off in another direction which is less relevant still.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Mr President: Minister Ludwig is trying to be helpful, giving fulsome answers and addressing the issues contained in the question. Senator Brandis may be frustrated that he is not getting the answer he wants, but Minister Ludwig is doing his best to make sure the Senate has all the information and he is providing a response to a question. In my submission, there is no point of order.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe the minister is answering the question. The minister has 20 seconds remaining.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those opposite do not accept the actions I have taken. I have been clear about this: the live animal export industry will not recommence until we can ensure animal welfare outcomes. Those in the opposition might want to play politics with this, but this is an issue where we have to ensure animal welfare outcomes are taken into account. (Time expired)

Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Prior to announcing the suspension of the live cattle trade to Indonesia, what consultation or discussions did the government have with the Indonesian government? With whom, when and how did this consultation take place, and did they also learn of this decision through the media?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Broadly, because it is not the usual practice to go through, piece by piece, individual conversations with overseas governments, what I can outline is that in terms of our bilateral relationship Indonesia is and continues to be an important trading nation for Australia. What we have done both through my department, the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, and through Foreign Affairs and Trade is to continue to keep Indonesia apprised of the decisions we have made. Those decisions go back first of all to—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order on relevance, Mr President: we have asked a number of serious, specific questions regarding this issue because we do take it seriously, despite the allegations from the other side. We asked when the minister first saw images of this nature, when he first contacted the minister and when he took action. All we are asking is that he put on the record specific answers to specific questions. That is all we ask. We are taking this seriously and we are asking specific questions. We ask you, Mr President, to bring him to the question.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Mr President: Minister Ludwig has been answering a number of the questions that have just been detailed. That was a debating point. If those opposite do not want to listen to the answers because they have prewritten questions, Mr President, then you should dismiss their points of order. Minister Ludwig has been answering the questions and he has been completely relevant to the question.

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It would help, as I am trying to listen to the minister's answers, if people on both sides were not screaming in my ear. That would be the first thing that would assist. I do draw the minister's attention to the question. The minister has 19 seconds remaining to answer the question.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, the Indonesian trade minister has stressed in her public comments that the Australian actions represent a temporary suspension and that Indonesia is keen to improve practices. In addition to that, President Yudhoyono, in a press conference on 10 June, has recognised the importance of this issue as well. He has asked his minister for— (Time expired)

Honourable senators interjecting—

Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask a further supplementary question, Mr President. Did the government consult with any external parties, bodies or persons prior to announcing, via the media, the suspension of the live cattle trade to Indonesia? If the answer is yes, who were they and when were they consulted?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There has been a long history of engagement on this matter with the MLA—that is, Meat and Livestock Australia—the NFF, together with ALEC, LiveCorp, the Cattle Council of Australia and the Sheepmeat Council of Australia. This government, unlike those opposite, who have not engaged in consultation, has been engaging in consultation with those bodies and continues to engage in consultation with those bodies. It is clear that those opposite may not want to hear about the meted approach that this government is taking on this issue. Those opposite may want to—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I know you want to continuously interject, Senator Brandis, but you have failed again to persuade me from my course of explaining that this government does consult with industry about its decisions, it does consult with industry about the results of those and, more importantly, it has been clear in pointing out to industry that they have failed to manage this industry. (Time expired)