Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Senator Ludwig. Prior to the minister imposing a suspension on the export of live cattle to Indonesia, was he aware of a closed system operated by a prominent Australian company that owns its own Indonesian feedlot and A-class abattoir and can guarantee that Australian cattle exported to Indonesia are treated according to acceptable international standards?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The challenge for those on the other side is to ensure that we do two things in relation to the live animal export industry: first of all, ensure animal welfare outcomes when the cattle go to export markets and, second, ensure we have a system in place that provides supply chain assurance. 'Supply chain assurance' means that we can trace, have independent verification and particularly have an auditing system in place. Those on the other side are stuck on two things: one is a closed loop system or something like a closed loop system and the second is an abattoir which might meet a particular standard. It is important that they do have a supply chain assurance in place.

In terms of whether I was aware of particular systems being in place, the crux of the matter is: is there supply chain assurance in place with traceability, transparency and an accounting and verification process? If you adopted the policy of those on the other side, you would be sending cattle cruelly to markets without any assurance that they are—

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. The minister was asked whether before making his decision he was aware of a fact. He has not addressed that issue either directly or indirectly.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Ludwig was absolutely answering the question. He still has 29 seconds to complete his answer. There is tedious repetition. Senator Brandis's repeated points of order should be dismissed out of hand.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ludwig, you have 29 seconds remaining. I draw your attention to the question.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The challenge is for those on the other side. There is no supply chain assurance in place for cattle leaving Australia, going into feedlots in Indonesia and going from feedlots into abattoirs that provides for traceability, accountability and independent auditing. (Time expired)

Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Since this Australian company can give that assurance of supply chain continuity, will the minister now allow the export of cattle under this closed system to resume immediately and thus avoid the dire consequences facing the Australian beef cattle industry?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What we do know is this. When you look at the comments by Premier Barnett, he gave the game away. In terms of providing assurances in this regard, he admitted he could not provide any assurance that Australian cattle would be managed through the supply chain in line with international welfare standards. Mr Barnett admitted he had no basis for calling for the immediate resumption of trade other than his personal presumption that appropriate standards were in place. Mr Barnett of course knows the presumption is totally incorrect.

In terms of being able to get trade up and running as early as possible, I have continually said to industry that there needs to be supply chain assurance in place that includes not only traceability, transparency and accountability but independent auditing at the conclusion of that. If there is one such body that can achieve that then they can talk to the department. (Time expired)

Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supple­mentary question. Can the minister assure the Senate that, prior to him imposing the suspension order, neither he nor his staff attempted in any way to influence decisions of departmental personnel in the lawful movement of cattle from Australia to Indonesia?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The decision to suspend the export to Indonesia of livestock for slaughter until new safeguards are established for the trade—this suspension will be in place until the government is certain that cattle from Australia are treated humanely at every step of the supply chain—

Christopher Back (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I asked a specific question, and that is: did the minister or members of his staff attempt to influence departmental decisions before any imposition of a suspension order?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Ludwig, I draw your attention to the question that has been asked.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I reject the supposition underlying the question. I have worked with the secretary, the department and my ministerial advisers throughout this period. Clearly, this suspension decision was made by me to ensure that we have a couple of things. First of all, we want to ensure animal welfare outcomes and that those who watched the Four Corners program have confidence that we will not send cattle to overseas markets like the ones that footage displayed. What is clear is that no cattle will go into those markets until such time as we have that supply chain assurance. (Time expired)