Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. I refer to the massive cover-up by the Howard govern­ment of events at Abu Ghraib. I ask the minister: is it true that Major George O'Kane was involved in drawing up the rules of conduct for interrogating prisoners within Abu—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Wait a minute, Senator Brown. Those on my left, I cannot hear Senator Brown. Senator Brown, continue.

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is it true that Major O'Kane was involved in drawing up the rules for interrogation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib? Is it also true that his guiding principle was, 'If you break someone down, you don't need them drawing strength from a Red Cross visit'?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Who drew up your donation list, Bob?

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: I would ask you to ask the opposition to have the decency both to allow a question to be asked without that sort of interjection and to allow the answers to be heard.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brown, I did not hear any interjections. There is noise down that end of the chamber. It is disorderly; they know it.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Brown for the question in my capacity representing the Minister for Defence. I have seen the reports in the press in the last few days about these matters and the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. All senators were shocked, I know, at the time at the terrible abuse and mistreatment that occurred in that centre, and it was the subject of much questioning in the Senate estimates process. Senator Faulkner and, I think, Senator Bishop and I spent a great deal of time—I think I was shadow defence minister at the time—questioning Defence officials about these matters. I think Senator Hill was the minister at the time. We attempted to get to the bottom of what Australia's involvement was in these matters. But I would point out that the key point here is that, in contrast to the arrangements in Afghanistan, the ADF did not act as the detaining power during joint operations in Iraq. We were not the detaining power. As you know, Senator—through you, Mr President—Australian personnel are required and trained to treat detainees humanely and with dignity and respect. My advice is that ADF personnel consistently acted in accordance with international and Australian domestic law on those detainee issues. In terms of Major George O'Kane's role in this matter, all I know is that he did provide situation reports which did not contain reference to incidents of abuse and that those reports were made through our reporting channels. I am not aware of any role in drafting regulations regarding treatment of detainees, but I again make the point that we were not the detaining power for those detainees.

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a supplementary question. I ask the minister: will he find out if Major O'Kane was involved in drawing up the rules for prisoner care in Abu Ghraib? I ask the minister: is it not true that the Geneva convention means the detaining power is the power that arrests the prisoner, not the power to whom that prisoner is transferred? And I ask the minister: why did Prime Minister Howard refuse Democrat leader Nancy Pelosi's request for— (Time expired)

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will take on notice any question that I cannot answer that is part of that question from Senator Brown. I do not have details about Major O'Kane's role. I would like, though, to again stress that we were not the detaining power and that there was an attempt to have accountability on these matters at the time, with Labor pursuing these matters at Senate estimates. But it is also the case that Mike Kelly, our parliamentary secretary for agriculture, who was quoted on 7.30 last night, was a legal officer who was deployed in Afghanistan and he made the point that the detainee management regime in Iraq suffered from a very poor lack of preparation and a very bad tactical approach and strategic approach to counterinsurgency. It is quite clear that there were failings in the way this process was managed. The images from Abu Ghraib were shocking. I am happy to take on notice the specific issues the senator raises

Bob Brown (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a further supplementary question to follow up on the Public Interest Advocacy Centre's revelation. I ask the minister: will he hold an independent inquiry into what is clearly a cover-up by Prime Minister Howard and Defence Minister Hill at the time of Australia's role in events at Abu Ghraib which put at great danger our troops in Iraq and allied troops in Iraq?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not aware of any plans to conduct an inquiry into these matters. I will take the question from Senator Brown on notice and ask Minister Smith for any further advice. As I say, there was an attempt in this parliament to hold the defence department accountable for any involvement we might have had. I stress again that we were not the detaining power, but there were legitimate concerns about what advice was being provided and the reporting of the treatment of those detainees. It was a matter handled by the previous government. The minister has no personal knowledge of those matters and members of this government have no personal knowledge of those matters. But, as I understand it, there is no current intention to conduct an inquiry following the information released in the last couple of days. I will refer the question to Mr Smith and seek feedback from him for you. (Time expired)