Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations, Senator Evans. I refer to the fact that the CEO of Qantas, Mr Joyce, had numerous meetings with ministers at which he pointed out the damage that the union campaign—

Senator Carr interjecting—

Why don't you do a bit more leaking? He pointed out the damage that the union campaign was causing to the airline and the fact that it could lead to the company grounding its aircraft. Given that the minister is a former union official and given that 28 out of 31 senators opposite are former union officials, does the minister seriously expect Australians to believe that not one member of the government anticipated Qantas doing what its CEO had warned them about and grounding its fleet? Why didn't the minister see this train wreck coming?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Ronaldson for his question and for reminding me that I was a union official. I think that it was pre-war—it was a fair while back, but I do recall it. I thought that I would say it and save my colleagues saying it.

The government have engaged constructively with both Qantas and the various unions in dispute with Qantas in recent months to do what we could do to help resolve the disputes at the heart of this industrial disputation. We have done everything that we can to assist the parties. We have also made offers that have not been taken up by the parties in terms of alternative conciliation procedures. We have tried to work as positively as we can to assist the parties. But, as Senator Ronaldson would know, both sides of these disputes—the unions and Qantas—were arguing publicly that they ought to be allowed to negotiate, that they continued to bargain in good faith and that they wanted the matter to be resolved by negotiation.

At no time, either publicly or privately, did either Qantas or the unions ask for our intervention. In fact, on a number of occasions it was made clear to me that it would not be welcomed. We were under the clear impression, as was Australia, given the public comments, that people wanted to negotiate that settlement. Many of the parties were appearing before Fair Work Australia in conferences seeking to resolve their differences. Those are the facts in relation to the government's engagement with the Qantas industrial disputation. We were anxious for the parties to resolve those matters. We understood the seriousness of the issues for Qantas. We also understood the genuine concerns of workers about their jobs. We wanted them to talk seriously about both issues.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Rather than mouthing tired cliches about getting people around the table, why didn't the minister or the Prime Minister say to Mr Joyce, 'Don't ground your fleet; we'll intervene,' and thus avoid 48 hours of chaos for the travelling public? Does the minister seriously contend that the CEO of Qantas would still have grounded the Qantas fleet if he had received such an assurance?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will say this in response: I do not think that Mr Joyce was in any doubt, after having a conversation with me, that the government's view was that he should not ground the fleet. I do not think that he was in any doubt. And, from what I have heard about Minister Albanese's advice to him, I think that he too made it very clear. In fact, I pushed Mr Joyce very hard not to read me his script but to tell me what industrial action was currently occurring at Qantas. The best he could do was to say that I should know that. I did know it. I knew that all industrial action by the engineers had been suspended. I knew that the pilots were taking action: they were wearing red ties and making announcements. And the TWU had had a one-hour stop-work meeting. I asked him whether he thought that justified closing down the airline and causing disruption to thousands of Australians and he would not answer me.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Now we have pushed the button. Isn't it the case, Minister, that on your watch we have seen our borders overrun by people smugglers, a regulation that almost shut down the Queensland community service sector and now inaction that has forced Qantas to ground its fleet? Minister, isn't the backbencher who said, 'Everything he touches turns to the proverbial; he left us with this problem on border security and he's not much better in IR,' spot on? Minister, why shouldn't the words 'I did not anticipate it' be your political epitaph?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not intend to respond to the quoted criticisms that Senator Ronaldson makes. We have a very robust democracy and I accept that that comes with the job. But I say to him that it is a fact that at no stage did Qantas raise with the government before that Saturday afternoon that they were contemplating a lockout of their employees, the most dramatic action that they could take; the equivalent of a general long-term strike by all employees against an employer. There was no warning given to the government that they were considering that option. When they advised us I was shocked that they would take that action.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Veterans' Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The grounding or the lockout?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The lockout. They had been public about their concerns about the impacts of the action on them but at no stage prior to Saturday afternoon did they raise the possibility of a lockout.