Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We were going so well until Senator Carr answered his questions. My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, Senator Ludwig. Can the minister explain why an abattoir that emits less than 25,000 tonnes of carbon does not pay a carbon tax; however, if they emit one kilogram more than 25,000 tonnes of carbon they are liable for a carbon tax of 25,000 tonnes by $23 a tonne, which is $575,000? Do you agree that going above 25,000 tonnes incurs the—

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Joyce, resume your seat: you are entitled to be heard in silence and I am entitled to hear the question. When there is silence we will proceed.

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does the minister agree that going above 25,000 tonnes incurs a $575,000 cost, and if you do agree what is the logic behind this perverse decision?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Joyce for his continued interest in climate change. It is quite encouraging. The government is committed to supporting jobs through the transition to a low-carbon economy, particularly in those areas where we are committed to helping abattoirs and meatworks make the most out of our clean energy package.

To answer the specific question, thresholds have to be set at some level; they are set at the 25,000-tonne level for an obvious reason. It is about trying to drive down the CO2 in the environment, including that emitted from meatworks. If you look at what we are doing to assist those areas, many meat processors have already spent time and energy investigating opportunities to become more efficient and to reduce emissions from their sedimentation ponds. Meat processors will also benefit from the $200 million Clean Technology Food and Foundries Investment program for granting investments and programs about how you can mitigate, deal with, improve and reduce emissions; increase energy efficiency and opportunities of capturing methane from these ponds to generate electricity; and to provide better outcomes for the environment. Ostensibly this will drive down their carbon emissions.

In July I announced a new funding ratio under the clean technology investment with Minister Combet, including the food and foundries program, which allows directly liable businesses who emit less than 100,000 tonnes of CO2equivalent to access the one-to-one funding ratio. There is not only the level of 25,000 tonnes; there is also the 100,000-tonne level which provides a greater assistance to the industry to meet their emissions targets. This means that directly liable eligible— (Time expired)

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Apparently this is not so. I refer the minister to the comments of John Berry of JBS Swift Australia, who said last week that the carbon tax is putting his business under extreme pressure, and that the 25,000-tonne threshold is creating a two-tiered beef industry. Why is the government making life tougher for our beef industry processing workers who are at a risk of losing their jobs or being put off shifts because of this crazy, arbitrary limit?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Joyce for his insightful question. In asking his first supplementary question Senator Joyce has again missed the point. Thresholds are set across many pieces of legislation, including the tax act and a range of others. This is about driving a lower emissions future. It is about driving a clean energy future. Already, companies like JBS Swift are seeking out ways to drive down their emissions. They already have an opportunity to seek funding from the clean technology investment program. They already have an opportunity to look at their own electricity consumption to drive their emissions down as part of their clean energy future. This is exactly what the ETS we are moving towards will achieve. It will achieve the opportunity for those companies to drive their costs down. (Time expired)

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the minister accept that the cost of processing the unit of beef that causes the abattoir to go above the 25,000 tonnes of carbon emitted is immense, and that therefore there is a strong incentive not to produce that unit as it is highly unlikely they are going to get the return to cover the $575,000 cost, unless it is covered by the ultimate payer of the carbon tax—the household—when they buy their roast?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What I can say clearly is that by continuing to drive innovation and productivity I am confident that meat processors across Australia will become more competitive. As we move to a clean energy economy they will also continue to make sound commercial decisions about how they can not only continue to be competitive and productive but also continue to be commercially orientated.

They are not going to simply listen to Senator Joyce and stop producing at a particular point when their beast, as far as his numbers are concerned, reaches about 5,200 bucks, which equates to about $500 for a leg of lamb. They are not going to do that. They are going to continue to take commercial decisions. We as a government have ensured that they can find opportunities and drive their carbon price down. (Time expired)