Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Minister Ludwig, representing the Minister for Health. Further to Senator Macdonald's line of questions in relation to the chemotherapy drug docetaxel, does the minister acknowledge that the Cancer Council of Australia, the Australian Lung Foundation, the Society of Hospital Pharmacists of Australia, the Private Cancer Physicians of Australia, the community pharmacy sector, National Seniors Australia and CanSpeak, the peak advocacy body for cancer sufferers, have all combined to condemn the proposed 1 December changes on the basis that it could, (1) compromise the safety of patients; (2) result in undue cost to patients and their families; and (3) adversely affect access to equitable and timely treatment? Does the minister consider that all these groups have got it wrong?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Xenophon for his question. As I said in answer to Senator Macdonald, on 1 December the price the government pays for the cancer drug docetaxel will drop by 70 per cent, bringing the price the government pays into line with the market price. For many years, pharmacists have been charging the government 20 to 75 per cent—

Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister is not being relevant. He has previously attempted to answer Senator MacDonald's question. The issue is: how will it affect cancer patients and their families? He is not addressing that fundamental issue.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has been going for 25 seconds. The minister has one minute and 35 seconds remaining. I draw the minister's attention to the question.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, pharmacists have been charging the government 20 to 75 per cent above the market price. These inflated prices have meant that the government has paid, in some instances, $2,800 above the market price of this drug. There has been no change to the budget. I am aware that some private hospitals and pharmacists are concerned that the docetaxel price reduction may impact on the viability of providing chemotherapy drugs in some pharmacy settings. Price disclosure for chemotherapy drugs is not new.

It has been in place since 2007, and pharmacies have been aware of the likelihood of price reductions for these drugs for several years.

It was the now opposition that put the scheme in place in 2007. It is important, though, to recognise that the PBS pays for the cost of the medicine and that the clinical services pharmacists provide in this sector are supported through the funding arrangements with the hospitals. So there are two parts to this: one is the PBS and the other is the funding that is provided with arrangements with the hospitals. Therefore, as this relates to pharmacy-dispensing remuneration, having encouraged the use of—

Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. I asked the minister specifically whether he considers that a number of peak groups including the voice of cancer sufferers in this country are wrong in their concerns. Does he consider that they are wrong in their concerns or not?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: I think that Senator Xenophon may well want to be more dramatic, but the fact is—

Senator Boyce interjecting—

I know that people are very keen to join in on this issue, but I think that the minister is attempting to lay out in response the facts about what has occurred and what that means for patients. He is not focusing on what people may have claimed; he is trying to explain to the Senate on behalf of the government—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Northern and Remote Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But he is supposed to answer the question, not talk about what he wants to talk about!

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, why don't you have a Bex and a good lie down? All right?

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister has 15 seconds remaining to address the question. The minister is answering the question; the minister has 15 seconds remaining.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What has been missed is that there is an Efficient Funding of Chemotherapy measure in place. In December 2011 it was put in place in consultation with the Pharmacy Guild. The government introduced the Efficient Funding of Chemotherapy measure to improve— (Time expired)

Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Today's Australian newspaper quotes a health department spokesperson as saying:

… I have encouraged the (Pharmacy) Guild to provide specific examples to my department of where the current dispensing fee structure may not meet the cost of providing the dispensing service.

Minister, has not the government in fact been warned about this impending problem since 2009 by key stakeholders, including pharmacists? And will the minister provide on notice details of the dates and content of such communications?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Xenophon for his question. If there are parts that I have not dealt with in my reply, of course I will always take them on notice and see if the Minister for Health wants to add any information.

The department is in discussion with a broad range of stakeholders, including pharmacists, the Pharmacy Guild of Australia, consumers, medical oncologist groups, prescribers, representatives from the public and private hospital sector and reconstitution services. The focus of these discussions is on a sustainable way forward for all stakeholders, with a primary focus on the needs of the patient. I think that sometimes we get very lost in this; this is about ensuring that. This government—and you can look up the record—increased the availability for $1.3 billion to assist cancer sufferers. It is about ensuring—

Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. I listened to Senator Xenophon's question, and he asked if documents would be tabled with regard to correspondence. I do not think that is very difficult; he is either going to table them or not, but the rest is kind of prattle.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Joyce may want to join the bandwagon, but he clearly did not listen to what the minister said. The minister said that, if there are any parts of the question asked of him that he has not got advice on, he will take those on notice and get information from the relevant minister. As the representative minister he took on that responsibility when he started to answer the question. There is no point of order, and perhaps if people just calmed down and listened to a factual explanation of what is occurring here everyone might have a better understanding.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I believe that the minister is answering the question. The minister has six seconds remaining.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It goes again to this issue that the Australian government pays the full cost of cancer drugs. (Time expired)

Nick Xenophon (SA, Independent) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given the minister's response, and given the discussions that the government is currently engaged in, will there at least be a deferral of the 1 December decision?

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That would be a matter for the Minister for Health to make a decision on. What I can say quite clearly is that these measures have been in place and have been in discussion for quite some time leading up to 1 December. If you look at the issues that have come through from that, the minister herself has indicated, again, that the government is determined that cancer patients will not miss out. This is what she said in her press release today:

If there is any evidence that the cost of delivering vital chemotherapy services needs to be looked at, the government is happy to do so.

It is very important that we ensure that we continue to focus on the patient, to make sure that the patient is receiving the services that are appropriate to them.

If you look at the issue, again, the Australian government does pay the full cost of cancer drugs despite— (Time expired)