Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Bob Carr. Given the minister's extensive dealings with foreign heads of government, does he agree that a head of government can create a climate that is conducive to corruption, through their choice of ministers and a lack of diligence as the custodian of ministerial probity?

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am delighted to answer the question, and I thank the senator for it. I do not know as a general rule, but I can only speak about my 10 years heading a government in New South Wales, during which time I can assure the Senate that there was never a single finding of lack of probity or propriety against me or my ministers—not one. Moreover, there was not even an allegation in all those question times over 10 years—all those question times in the bearpit of the New South Wales parliament, regarded as the toughest in Australia. There was not even from the state coalition in opposition all those years, day after day of question time, a single allegation against me on the grounds of probity or propriety.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, a point of order on relevance: my question was very specifically in relation to whether the choices of minister by a head of government help to create a climate which is conducive to corruption.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on the point of order to make the point that the question, in my view, did not actually go to the minister's responsibilities as the Minister for Foreign Affairs in this chamber and if the opposition seek to use question time to try and smear people, rather than direct questions on policy to the minister, they will get the sort of reply they are getting.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: the question was about 'the minister's extensive dealings with foreign heads of government'. That was the entire premise of the question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am listening to the minister's answer and he does have 57 seconds remaining. I do draw the minister's attention to the question and the minister has now got 56 seconds.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In dealing with foreign heads of government, I naturally reflect the experience I had as head of government for 10 years, so that is there, and, as I said, not a finding in 10 years, not even an allegation from the state coalition, which sat there every question time never making an allegation of impropriety—not one.

Concetta Fierravanti-Wells (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Ageing) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How can you say that? You know that is not true. You know that is not true, Bob.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I might say the senator over there was making a grovelling apology for inaccuracies she relayed to the Senate. She got up yesterday to do it and I have never seen a more grovelling or embarrassing apology from the senator there: 'Oh, Mr President, I'm sorry I said this. Oh, I got this wrong. Oh dear, I got this wrong.' I didn't even read her speech, so goodness knows what other inaccuracies would come to the surface if anyone actually read it. (Time expired)

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question, and I am glad the minister enjoys this line of questioning. If the minister were asked by a foreign government, in his capacity of foreign minister of Australia, to vouch for the integrity of each minister he chose to serve under him as the Premier of New South Wales, would he do so?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe it has got to relate to the minister's portfolio. I will give you a chance to rephrase the question to make it in order, Senator Fifield.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, my question was very specifically in relation to if Minister Carr were asked a question by a foreign government, in his capacity as foreign minister, as to whether he would vouch for the integrity of those he chose. Would he do so? Mr President, people who have served as ministers in government, state and federal, do not cease to exist. They engage in business activities and not-for-profit activities, in Australia and around the world, and it is quite probable that the foreign minister would be asked about the integrity of these individuals at some point by foreign governments.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister can answer that question in so much as it applies to the portfolio.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think this is testing my ingenuity. I can report to the Senate. No wonder they got him to ask it after her performance yesterday, when she had to back off and apologise and withdraw. I might say, Senator, that I accept your apology. Because it was given with a teary-eyed regret, it would be ungallant of me not to.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Bob Carr, I have asked you to address the question in so much as it applies to your portfolio.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I was providing some background observations to the Senate because I cannot see how it applies to my portfolio. I have had many discussions with heads of state and heads of government, and in all these discussions Australia's reputation as a place of good governance has been reinforced implicitly and sometimes explicitly. I think all senators can unite in pride at the reputation that this country has for good government. That is my best effort to relate that jumbled and muddled and embarrassing question to any matter I have dealt with. But I do hope that questions continue to be as well researched and as tested by the Leader of the Opposition— (Time expired)

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the minister advise the Senate if he thinks that it is appropriate for someone who led a government whose ministers are subject to investigation by the Independent Commission Against Corruption to serve as the face of Australia to the world? Or would it be more appropriate for the foreign minister to stand aside until corruption investigations into the government he led are concluded lest foreign governments question the seriousness with which the Australian government views allegations of corruption in public office?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will rule again that the minister can answer that question only in so much as that part of the question which relates to the portfolio.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is just as well that they have George, a qualified lawyer, to advise them on this question. Imagine how bad they would be if George were not there drafting it. I just want to say that, in respect of the ICAC inquiry proceeding in Sydney at the present time, I have not been called, and I draw the attention of the Senate to the observations made about my record and my time by counsel assisting. I do not think that I can help beyond that, but any time that the senator wants a tutorial from me based on years of experience in the New South Wales parliament, so highly regarded by the Senate, I am happy to provide it to him.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order in relation to relevance. The question to Minister Bob Carr related to whether he felt that his role—

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Just wait a moment, Senator Fifield. Order on my right!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Mr President, I have a point of order on relevance. The question to Senator Bob Carr was very specific as to whether he felt that his role as Australia's face to the world was compromised by the fact that ministers in his government are currently being investigated by the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Australia seeks to advise foreign governments in relation to corruption issues, and they quite rightly look to how the Australian government deals with allegations of corruption and how seriously it takes them.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. The minister is answering the question. The minister has 19 seconds and, as I said at the outset, the minister needs to respond to the question in so much as it applies to the portfolio.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Thistlethwaite is an expert in water safety. This is useful because we have just witnessed a man drowning. Help is at hand. I suppose this is vaguely relevant in that there is— (Time expired)