Christine Milne (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question without notice is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister Carr, regarding Ben Zygier, otherwise known as Prisoner X.

Minister, have you formerly requested from the Israeli government a full copy—not just the published extracts—of Judge Kedrai's report into the circumstances surrounding the alleged suicide of Ben Zygier? If so, when did you request that full report and information? Was it before or after your own department's full report on the issue, given you told the Senate estimates you would not be doing anything until you got that report? And further, have you received that report? If not, are you pursuing it?

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs, before he furnished me with his report, requested all relevant information from the Israeli government—all information. When I was last advised on this it was to the effect that no information was forthcoming. There are aspects about this case that we have no capacity to answer. We do not have the capacity through our mission in Tel Aviv to conduct an inquiry into the circumstances of Mr Zygier's death. We have no—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You have a mission in Lebanon.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry?

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Ignore the interjections.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I thought it might be a helpful intervention from Senator Abetz.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, ignore the interjection.

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Instead it was one that tried to make mocking humour out of a matter of life and death and the serious matter of international relations. I, for one, am disappointed in the approach the coalition has taken.

To return to the question: I think the Australian people would like, if not every aspect of this matter of Mr Zygier's treatment in imprisonment revealed to the light of day, then certainly a good deal of it. But that is a matter for the government of Israel. We have made it very clear to them that we want a full statement of Mr Zygier's treatment while he was in prison.

I might say, as I have said before about this: Mr Zygier chose to be a dual citizen. He was an Australian who went to Israel and lived there for 10 years, taking out dual citizenship. He opted to work for the Israeli government, and according to reports that have appeared in the Israeli media—reports that I cannot confirm nor deny—he worked for Israeli security. None of these matters relieve us of an obligation to fulfil—(Time expired)

Christine Milne (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, I presume all information from the Israeli government includes that judge's report. Can you now tell the Senate whether the cell in which Mr Zygier was held was suicide proof and whether it was under surveillance? Or whether cameras where filming when Mr Zygier allegedly hanged himself, given that the Israeli minister for justice said he does not know, and the commissioner for prison services in Israel has said that, in fact, it was not a suicide-proof cell and it was not under surveillance? (Time expired)

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, this is relevant to my point: we have not got a capacity to conduct inquiries about these matters from our mission in Tel Aviv. We cannot summon witnesses, we cannot ask the prison administration, we cannot gain entry to the prison and we cannot inspect the cell. We are dependent for any insights into Mr Zygier's condition and Mr Zygier's treatment—especially in the last days in late 2010—on information the Israelis will give us or choose to give us.

We do know some things: we know that his family had 50 visits to him. During that 10 months or so that he was in prison we know that neither his family nor his legal representatives made any request of the Australian embassy or any other Australian government instrumentality for further consular representation. (Time expired)

Christine Milne (Tasmania, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary questions. Thank you, Minister. Are we to understand that you accept the reports of the Israeli government, and that is an end to it? Or is there any further action you intend to take, since your criticism of your own department was that they failed to follow up on the guarantees that we received from the Israeli government? What follow up are you going to take?

Bob Carr (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, we will seek information. But let me underline—again as well—that Mr Zygier chose to work for the government of Israel. If reports are to be believed, he chose to work for them in the area of security and intelligence. That is not something I can confirm or deny. He chose to do that, if reports in Israel are to be believed, and he lived in Israel for 10 years with his dual citizenship. In future, while we would seek to do everything to protect an Australian citizen in his position with more attention to detail and a greater focus on accountability than was the case in this instance, there are not many guarantees you can give where an Australian citizen makes such choices. Mr Zygier went to live and work in a difficult area in a most challenging part of the world.