Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Finance and Deregulation, Senator Wong. Does the minister stand by her expenditure projections in relation to illegal arrivals by boat in this year's budget, which are based on an assumption that those illegal arrivals will fall by at least 46 per cent from this year to next year?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank the senator for his question. I have been waiting for a question from Senator Cormann, and it is very pleasing that we finally have one. He will know, of course—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Northern and Remote Australia) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Could you try answering it then, for a change?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Oh, you're still here, are you?

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Interjections are disorderly, on both sides. The minister is entitled to be heard in silence.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann traversed this in great detail in estimates.

Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—

He's reminding us he's still here.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There have been some boat arrivals since then.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! You have asked the question. The minister should have the opportunity to answer the question. The minister has one minute and 25 seconds.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, this matter was traversed in great detail in the budget. The opposition would know that we did provision additional funds for asylum seeker management in the budget. The methodology for irregular maritime arrivals is set out at statement 6 of the budget papers. It is transparently heavily influenced by occupancy levels across the immigration processing network, which are determined by the number of IMAs already in Australia awaiting resolution of the protection visa applications, operational decisions, length of time taken to resolve asylum claims and so forth. So the point is: we have been transparent in the budget about the methodology associated with IMA costs.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order in relation to the requirement for the minister to be directly relevant to the question. The question was not one about methodology in the budget, which we know. The question was whether the minister stands by the expenditure forecast, the expenditure projections that were made at budget time. The minister has not got anywhere near answering the question as to whether she stands by the predictions that were made in the budget in relation to illegal boat arrivals.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Parliamentary Secretary for School Education and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, Mr President: of course methodology is relevant to that question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order at this stage.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The methodology is very relevant to the cost estimates—it is how the costs are calculated. In relation to this or any other issue, budget estimates are always reviewed at each budget update.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you stand by it? Yes or no. Answer the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Have you finished heckling? Seriously, why do you bother asking questions? Why don't you both ask and answer the question yourself?

Senator Cormann interjecting—

You like the sound of your own voice so much—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! If you have asked a question, it does not help if you repeatedly override the minister with interjections throughout the answer. You have the opportunity now to ask a supplementary question.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It would help, of course, if the minister answered the question.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! There is no debate. Ask your question.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the government's expenditure forecasts for this year were based on a prediction of 12,000 illegal arrivals by boat and that more than double that number—a staggering 24,541—have already arrived illegally by boat, why should anyone trust this government that things will be any different next year?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have laid out the methodology, which is transparent in the budget papers. I remind those opposite that this budget was so responsible that they are backing it in. They come in here and complain about the budget but they are backing it in—including the savings measures we put in place. Even Senator Brandis, I understand, is now supporting the court costs he railed against.

Everybody in this place knows that this debate has been driven entirely by the opposition's attempts to politicise it. We know that those opposite do not have any solution or any response to what is a difficult public policy problem. We know they have segued from 'turn the boats back' to 'maybe they will diminish over the first few years.' We know what a joke Ms Bishop is when she is being flatly contradicted by the Indonesian ambassador, who clearly demonstrated that their plan is entirely a farce. (Time expired)

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Treasurer) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. How can the government in its budget possibly predict a massive 90 per cent reduction in illegal arrivals by boat over the forward estimates given the massive increase of illegal arrivals under this Labor/Green government so far? Is the government assuming that there will be a re-introduction of the successful border protection policies of the previous coalition government over the forward estimates period?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Finance and Deregulation) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How can anybody believe the opposition when they say they will stop the boats? We know that our experts—our Navy personnel—have said that it is too dangerous for the boats to be turned back. It is not a political statement; it is about keeping people alive. Despite the fact that the coalition boast that they will turn the boats back to Indonesia, the ambassador has said that no such collaboration will happen between Indonesia and Australia.

You are peddling lies on this issue in an attempt to make politics out of what is a very difficult public policy problem, which I find completely offensive. You do it again and again because you do not actually want a solution to this problem; you just want to play politics with it. Everyone in this chamber knows that. (Time expired)