Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As everybody in this place knows, when an employment agreement terminates, be it an enterprise bargaining agreement or a modern award, it is up for renegotiation. In those circumstances, as I think I said yesterday, you have the hypothetical position where wages could go down if the workers voted for it in enterprise agreement negotiations or the Fair Work Commission were to so determine. That is hypothetically possible. Is it practicable, is it likely to occur? Absolutely not, in my experience. Therefore, when the Office of Best Practice Regulation actually says individual employees undertaking work under the guidelines may receive lower remuneration when their current arrangements expire, they are dealing with the hypothetical that it may happen. My view is and my money is on it not happening.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. How many cleaners are engaged under contracts subject to the now revoked Commonwealth Cleaning Services Guidelines 2012? When do these contracts expire and how many Commonwealth cleaners will be vulnerable to a pay cut when contracts are renewed?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again, we have a proposition being put by the Australian Labor Party that government ministers should be determining the rate of pay. If the Labor Party did it for cleaners, why not for security guards, why not for the maintenance outside and why not for the Senate clerks? The answer is—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order: on relevance. I have asked a clear question: how many cleaners are engaged under the contracts? When do the contracts expire? And how many will be vulnerable?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You might have jumped a little prematurely. Senator Abetz, I detected, was getting to that exact point and he has just over half of his time left to answer the question.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. In relation to vulnerability, the question is: should the parliament and a minister by fiat determine what the rate of pay ought to be? Or should it be determined by the vote of workers or, in the event it cannot be resolved, by the Fair Work Commission? We believe the independent umpire should make the decision. I believe about a couple of dozen contracts are affected by Clean Start, noting that over 60 contracts already had the higher rates of pay anyway. (Time expired)

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Why is the government exposing some of the country's lowest paid workers to pay cuts of $5 an hour, while at the same time spending over $21,000 on new curtains and cushions for the PM's dining room?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again, Senator Cameron's question has in it a complete and utter vote of no confidence in both the workers negotiating their own arrangements under an enterprise bargaining agreement and the Fair Work Commission. It is the Fair Work Commission that determines the minimum rate of pay.

Senator Lines interjecting—

And if Senator Lines wants the parliament to make that ruling rather than the Fair Work Commission, let her campaign on that. But we will be going to the Australian people with a consistent message that we believe that minimum standards should be determined by the Fair Work Commission in the event that workers cannot sort out these things by negotiation with their employers. So the Labor Party, in a little stunt for the Australian Services Union, have created a precedent that is very dangerous for workplace relations in this country. (Time expired)

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Deputy President, I seek leave to table a document.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is leave granted?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The document is a government document. It is the draft regulation impact statement, Fair Work principles and the Commonwealth Cleaning Service Guidelines revocation, which quite clearly indicates that government contracts are likely to—

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, resume your seat. It is fair enough for you to describe what the document is without going into further detail on that matter. You have sought leave. I will put the question again: is leave granted for Senator Cameron to table that document?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Not until we have seen it.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Leave is not granted, but you are invited, I understand from that response, to seek leave again at a future time.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.