Nova Peris (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Attorney General (Senator Brandis) to a question without notice asked by Senator Peris today relating to the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency.

I rise to take note of answers to questions today in relation to the $1 million cut in federal funding to the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency, NAAJA, which has forced the closure of its office in East Arnhem Land.

Last Wednesday in this house, the Minister for Indigenous Affairs again repeated his false claim that no Indigenous front-line services would be affected by his government's cuts to Indigenous Affairs. At the very same time, NAAJA were announcing that their office in East Arnhem Land was closing. The NAAJA office in East Arnhem Land is clearly front-line. It has been providing front-line services for over 20 years. I want to read the announcement made by NAAJA CEO Priscilla Collins last week:

The NAAJA Board has very reluctantly decided to close our Nhulunbuy office from the end of this year, given the deep funding cuts that have been announced to Aboriginal Legal Services. This was a very difficult decision and a sad one for our service.

You might be aware that in the May budget, the Commonwealth government confirmed that $6 million is to be cut from Aboriginal Legal Services for the 2015-16 financial year. Based on current funding allocations, the cuts announced to Aboriginal Legal Services could see close to $1 million cut from NAAJA's core annual funding as from the next financial year.

We are also very concerned that more cuts to NAAJA programs, funded outside our core operational contract, may be on the horizon. Given the chronic underfunding of services like NAAJA, funding cuts directly impact on our ability to provide front-line services. We have had to act now to plan for how we can best provide services to our clients in the future.

After almost 20 years of having an office in Nhulunbuy we are very disappointed to have to make this decision. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the work of NAAJA staff, past and present, who have worked hard in our Nhulunbuy office and fought for true justice, dignity and respect for Aboriginal people in the East Arnhem Land region.

That is a very clear statement from NAAJA CEO Priscilla Collins that the office closure is a direct result of the Abbott government's funding cuts—funding cuts that they continue to insist, despite the fact that it is blatantly incorrect, will not impact on front-line services.

The Attorney-General defended his budget cuts as a budget measure. We already know that, when government ministers have no justification for their actions, they simply resort to this repeated excuse. But let me state clearly: this funding cut will cost the government more money. It will cost taxpayers money. The services provided by the East Arnhem Land office are proven to reduce crime and reduce reoffending. The independent Parole Board of the Northern Territory has pointed to the programs that NAAJA provide as reducing reoffending. There are countless other studies and reports that prove that programs like this reduce reoffending. The NAAJA office in East Arnhem Land keeps people out of our prison system, and keeping someone out of prison costs so much less than keeping someone in prison. It costs around $100,000 a year to keep someone in prison. So this decision by the Abbott government will end up costing taxpayers far more than it saves.

In his answers, the Attorney-General said that, when he visits East Arnhem Land for the Garma festival next month, he will try and fit in a meeting if his diary permits. What could possibly be more important in a trip to East Arnhem Land than to visit a front-line service that is closing as a direct result of his own funding cuts? NAAJA already have written to the Attorney General—just last week—requesting a meeting and asking him to see firsthand the services that they provide. I urge him in the strongest possible terms to take up the offer and visit the office he is forcing to close. The Prime Minister is also visiting Arnhem Land, for a week in September. He claims to be the Prime Minister for Aboriginal Australians. He has a week there. Will he find the time to visit a front-line service to Aboriginal Australians that his government is closing?

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Are there any left?

Nova Peris (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Maybe not. Aboriginal people are 15 times more likely to end up in prison, as I mentioned before. Will the Prime Minister for Aboriginal people visit a service that is trying to address this appalling situation? I strongly urge the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General to visit the office and reverse their decision to force its closure, by restoring the $l million that they have cut.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for the Environment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, this being the first occasion for me to do so, I congratulate you on your appointment to the office of Deputy President.

I think we heard in question time today some thoughtful responses from Senator Brandis in relation to some important issues that Senator Peris raised in her question and in her contribution to the debate just then. These are absolutely important matters. As Senator Brandis acknowledged in response to Senator Peris's questions, it is absolutely a tragic fact in Australia that Indigenous incarceration rates are far, far too high. They are far too high particularly when considered relative to the levels of incarceration for the overall Australian population. This is a terrible problem that our country faces. It is a problem that is but one element of many different elements of Indigenous disadvantage that Australia has, and it is a problem that our government is completely up-front about acknowledging. We acknowledge that it is a policy priority of Prime Minister Abbott and of this entire government to make sure that we do whatever we possibly can to address the overall mix of issues in relation to Indigenous disadvantage.

We are seeing in this government—from the Prime Minister, Minister Scullion, Parliamentary Secretary Tudge and across the entire government—a commitment to address, at its basic level, any area we can to assist and further the cause of Indigenous development in this country, starting, most importantly, with getting children to school. We have heard some great and positive stories from Minister Scullion in this chamber previously, where he has identified that some of the measures with very active and intensive intervention programs are making a meaningful difference in getting more young Indigenous children to school, getting higher rates of school attendance. We know that, from that, we can ultimately, hopefully, get better economic outcomes for those young people and for those Indigenous communities. But there are no magic bullets. Previous governments have tried. Previous governments of all political persuasions have tried different policies, and sadly we still face levels of Indigenous disadvantage and Indigenous incarceration today that are unacceptably high. We have to work through what will be long-term policies and long-term strategies to effect change. Although our government has an absolutely rock-solid policy commitment to try to tackle these issues, it does not mean that this policy area is completely exempt from opportunities to seek efficiencies, opportunities for us to try to find ways to drive the budget further.

What was telling when Senator Brandis gave his answers to Senator Peris's questions was the reactions from some of those opposite, who mock the notion that there is any debt problem in Australia, who seem to think—it is a complete furphy—that we can live with limitless expenditure and limitless debt and that it will have absolutely no consequence into the future. Well, it does have consequences into the future. Already as a nation and a government we are paying around $1 billion a month just to service existing levels of government debt. If that government debt continues to grow, then of course the level of interest that future governments will pay will continue to grow.

As Senator Cormann rightly highlighted during question time today, we will ultimately reach a point where the types of budget decisions that a future government may have to take will be far harsher, far more severe and have far greater consequences for Australians if we do not take action now. We have a choice as a country and we have a choice as a parliament. We can take action now to rein in the level of deficits to bring debt under control—and that action is relatively careful and relatively modest and has limited consequences—or we can do nothing, as the Labor Party seem to propose, and a future generation will have to pick up the problem, with a greater level of debt, enormous interest payments and huge consequences that they will face in the future. Taking action now means that there are sometimes difficult decisions that have to be taken, across every portfolio, but, be under no illusion, Mr Deputy President, Senator Peris and others; this government wants to address the issues of Indigenous disadvantage, and we will do so as effectively as the resources allow. (Time expired)

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, I also congratulate you on your elevation. Now we have found the truth. Senator Birmingham has belled the cat: they would like to do something and they wring their hands about it but, ultimately, they are going to sit on their hands and do nothing. This is a $500 million cut to Indigenous affairs, and the impact of these cuts on front-line services is now clear for all to see. The defence, sterling as it was from Senator Birmingham, showed that the truth is that they do not want to do anything. They will ply it with platitudes but ultimately they do not want to address it. This requires a commitment of funding, not just platitudes.

Of course, Senator Brandis's answer was, 'There is a budget emergency.' Yes, there was mocking laughter in this chamber—because there is not a budget emergency. In Senate estimates we asked Senator Brandis to reiterate his promise made in the Sydney Morning Herald that his cuts would not impact Indigenous legal aid. His department responded: 'This is a matter to be considered within the budget context.' It seems that promises must be considered in a budget context as well. The first victim of the phoney budget emergency is the promise Senator Brandis made before the election. The Abbott government's budget of broken promises ripped more than $500 million from Indigenous programs but said, critically, that these cuts would not affect services on the ground. Quite frankly, that was a cruel joke.

This stands in stark contrast to Labor's approach. In Labor's 2013-14 budget we put in an additional $118.2 million to improve access to justice for Australians. This included additional funding of $12 million for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander legal services and $10 million for community legal centres. We recognised that this is an issue that you have to address. You do not close the gap overnight but you do have to start on the road to closing the gap. Cutting front-line services is not the first step in the right direction.

In contrast, let us look at the coalition's budget. It says that they have already cut $41 million from Indigenous projects since they have come to office. That is, by my reckoning, about $133,000 a day less that they are spending each and every day on Indigenous legal services. But it gets worse. The budget says there will be a cut of $163 million this financial year. That is almost half a million dollars a day that is not going to be contributed to assisting Indigenous legal aid. Yet the cuts are not over—a further $331 million will be taken out until 2018. So that is $500 million dollars taken out of Indigenous programs.

And what do those opposite say about these cuts? Senator Scullion—in his not so sterling defence—on Sky, when asked about whether there would any impact on front-line services from the $500 million in cuts, said: 'Absolutely not. I mean, you won't see an impact on the ground.' They are taking $440,000 a day and they are still pretending that this will not be a front-line services cut.

Well, the jig is up. The cuts are having an effect on the front line. The first front-line cut I will raise is the cut described in the question to today. The $1 million cut to the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency has resulted in a big cut to front-line services. They are closing their East Arnhem office in January. No clearer could the impact be on front-line services for Indigenous people in East Arnhem. For more than 20 years the East Arnhem Land office has provided front-line high-quality services to Indigenous people dealing with legal advocacy, and now, after 20 years, Aboriginal people in the region are faced with the closure of this service.

The response by this government continues to be this tired refrain of 'there is a budget emergency,' but when they need to find money they find it and spent it. I suspect the truth is that they do not want to spend it in this area. They would rather spend it by giving it to the Reserve Bank— (Time expired)

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too rise to take note of answers given by Senator Brandis. I acknowledge that this is a difficult area and it is a highly emotive area of what happens in our country and government policy and public policy and how it is formed. There are a number of things which related to Senator Peris's question to Senator Brandis. Firstly—and I will revisit this—was the budget issue; and, secondly, the fact that there is a willingness on the part of this government, which was expressed by Senator Brandis.

He had allocated to the legal services $290,000 extra in the budget to cope with the needs that Senator Peris was talking of. And, not only that, there was a one-off $600,000 front-line legal service payment made to that area. This is hardly the abandonment that Senator Ludwig talked about in his contribution a moment ago. He asserted that we sit on our hands on front-line services. I hardly think a $600,000 one-off payment is sitting on our hands. He also said that we did not want to address this area. Well, we are addressing it through the Prime Minister's office. The Prime Minister has taken responsibility of this area.

When Senator Peris puts forward figures that we are all aware of in this chamber, such as it is 15 times more likely that an Aboriginal or an Indigenous person will be incarcerated than someone from the mainstream community, we know that there is a problem. The Prime Minister, Senator Brandis, Treasurer Joe Hockey and the finance minister are working to get the budget back on track so that we have the resources to address these social injustices—things which senators from all sides of the chamber want to address. So, despite the feigned outrage from across the chamber, saying that this area had been abandoned is absolute nonsense.

In fact, we are taking a methodical approach to the way in which we deal with Indigenous peoples in this country and the way in which money and resources are allocated—so much so, that the chair of the Prime Minister's Indigenous Advisory Council has suggested that there may be some ability to save money from parts of the budget allocated to the outcomes of Indigenous people in this country so that that money could be reallocated, so that, in the longer term, the benefits of the budget moneys allocated can go to places where it will give, in the long run, more beneficial social outcomes for our Indigenous populations. The suggestion from the chair of the Prime Minister's Indigenous Advisory Council is that: 'Once you are getting every Aboriginal kid to school, then obviously we are going to need more resources.' So that is a priority. We have to get Indigenous children educated and out of the communities where they will not have any job prospects. That is the greatest challenge that we have: to lift these children from their no-prospect environments into environments where they do have prospects to make a contribution.

Of those savings, those resources, that we are looking to reallocate in the Indigenous area, there will be a re-investment. We believe that there are inefficiencies in the current system which have been caught up in the politics of the system.

Also, in Senator Brandis's answer to Senator Peris, he expressed a willingness to meet with the Indigenous communities of eastern Arnhem Land when he is up there in the short term. I think all of those people in those committees should take up Senator Brandis, the Attorney-General of this country, on his offer to come and visit them and hear what he has to say about his ideas on enhancing their prospects for a greater contribution and a more meaningful life without the threat of incarceration.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Senator Collins?

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr Deputy President Marshall, and congratulations. I, too, rise to take note on the same matter. We can take no confidence from the answer provided by Senator Brandis to Senator Peris's question today. Indeed, it highlights that we can take no confidence from Senator Scullion's promise that front-line services would not be affected. In fact, you can read into Senator Brandis's answer that he, too, cannot assure that. He may agree to meet with people from—to take one example that Senator Peris raised today—NAAJA on the east Arnhem Land office closure, but let us put that into context.

The context here is the $1 million concerned—a component of the $13.4 million net loss in Indigenous legal services. Senator Brandis might refer to one-off payments, as highlighted by Senator Edwards, of $600,000, but, in the context—

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Two legal services.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Or even two legal services—another $296,000. But, in the context of the overall $13.4 million net loss for Indigenous legal services, I think the point is clearly made. Indeed, this cut is a short-term, narrow-minded cut to Indigenous services, not a long-term methodical approach to improving service delivery for Indigenous Australians.

What is perhaps more galling about this particular case—quite aside from, as Senator Peris highlighted, the cuts of half-a-billion dollars in Indigenous affairs—is the press release by Ministers Scullion and Brandis, just ahead of question time, talking about the unity that had been achieved in relation to constitutional recognition and how important this unity is. Well, we know what 'unity' there was before the election in a range of areas. We know that this government made promises that it had no intention of keeping—promises in education, which will impact direly on Indigenous education; promises in health that, again, will impact significantly on disadvantaged communities across Australia; promises around the ABC, which we heard of also in question time. But there was also this strongly implied unity of purpose around Indigenous affairs.

Moreover, the Prime Minister takes Indigenous affairs into the Prime Minister's department and continues to pursue the constitutional recognition agenda but then cuts half-a-billion dollars from Indigenous affairs, with no methodical plan—no plan at all. All we have in this chamber is Senator Scullion's commitment that front-line services will not be affected, and what we see from Senator Peris's one area, one issue, today, is that the $1 million cut to NAAJA is leading to the closure of the east Arnhem Land office in January. This service has existed for 20 years, as highlighted by Senator Ludwig, and the impact will be significant. We are not only talking about the incarceration rates of Indigenous people more generally, as Senator Peris highlighted. Let us look at Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, for example. They are 25 times more likely to be incarcerated, and they will be impacted on significantly by a loss of representation. These are short-term cuts that will have long-term pain. There is no methodical plan. These are thoughtless cuts. And the minister was unable, through countless questions in this area, to highlight what plan there is.

The government likes to say that this is one area that cannot be excluded from achieving efficiencies. Well, if we heard arguments about efficiencies we might accept them, but there are no justifications for these cuts and no future plan to provide more efficient services for Indigenous Australians.

Senator Birmingham, in his response in this debate, referred to the mocking that occurred in relation to Senator Brandis's reference to the budget emergency. I have to close by saying: I did not expect him to deteriorate further than Senator Nash on— (Time expired)

Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to take note of the same answer. I am extremely distressed to hear of the closure of the office of NAAJA. I have spoken to NAAJA many times. They do excellent work. They have presented to the community affairs committee on various inquiries on a number of occasions. They provide vital and excellent services to Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory.

When I asked about the removal of legal aid funding in estimates, I was told that it would have no impact on front-line services. That was clearly absolute nonsense, because it clearly is having impacts on front-line services. When I asked the social justice commissioner, Mr Mick Gooda, about what impact cutting support for Aboriginal legal services would have—not just areas around policy and not just the cutting of advocacy funds—he very clearly said in estimates that this would have a direct impact on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and that it would have a direct impact on the incarceration rates of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. We are not going to close the gap if we continue to take funding out of supports for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Just 10 minutes ago, the issue Mr Mundine is talking about was raised: a further $600 million worth of cuts. That is over half a billion dollars' worth of cuts to funding for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. That is not simply efficiency programs. We asked in estimates where this funding was coming from. The department and the minister could not tell us where that funding was coming from. They have not done a systematic review of funding for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. What they have done is just take an efficiency dividend. So they cannot stand there and say, 'this is about delivering more efficient and better services for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples', because that simply is not true. They have taken a razor to that funding.

And they are not satisfied with the $534 million that they are taking out of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander funding. Previously the government has sort of denied any ownership of these particular suggestions for cuts. But here we have Senator Edwards quite proudly suggesting another $600 million worth of cuts to funding supports for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

We know that we are not anywhere close to closing the gap. Yes, we have had improvements on certain indicators, which is absolutely fantastic. But we saw the latest COAG reform report and it clearly said that, if we do not step up activity, we are not going to meet the closing the gap commitments for the time frame we have in place, which is 2030. We are not on track to meet our closing the gap commitments.

This government has dramatically cut funding to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. You also need to bear in mind that those cuts are on top of the disproportionate impact that the budget will have on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. For example the cuts to income support are disproportionately going to impact Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. The cuts to the disability support pension will disproportionately impact Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Senator Peris asked very important questions in this chamber and, of course, did not receive satisfactory answers. What is going to happen to the people that were previously represented and supported by NAAJA? NAAJA has provided invaluable services and not just to people in Arnhem Land; they do a lot of other work. This is not just about the impacts on that particular office; it will impact their work throughout the Northern Territory. It is an organisation that provides ongoing support for many Aboriginal people who have nowhere else to go for that level of support. It puts paid to the complete furphy that this government put around that their cuts would not have any impact on front-line services. Clearly it is having an impact. Clearly it will have significant long-term impacts.

Question agreed to.