Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. I refer the minister to an article written last year by former CDF and now Governor-General and Commander in Chief, Peter Cosgrove, entitled, 'Why our submarines need to be built in Australia'. I quote:

To outsource this work would be to export hundreds of billions of dollars of work to supporting another country’s industry and jobs, rather than investing in our own.

… … …

This is short-sighted thinking.

Minister, was General Cosgrove right?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I say to the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate that when this government came to power it presumed that there had been something done on the two options that were left to the government on SEA 1000. What we have ascertained is that all of the theatre surrounding the reduction from four options—that is, a MOTS and a modified MOTS to son of Collins and a bespoke design; moving to son of Collins and a bespoke design—was in fact theatre.

There was in fact no work being done on those two remaining options. Indeed, what was happening was the Labor government was taking money out of the submarine program; just ripping it off. The proof of that pudding is that there is no contract, no commitment and no obligation on the government to do anything with respect to submarines in Adelaide. You would have thought that South Australian Labor—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Senator Moore, you have a point of order?

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. My point of order is on direct relevance. The question is very specific: it is about comments about outsourcing. If the minister could actually move towards the outsourcing element, that would be useful.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Moore. I do remind the minister of the question. Minister, you have 43 seconds left to answer the question.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Even the President smells the blood in the water.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Conroy!

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Outsourcing is about contractual obligations to secure the program in Adelaide. There was no such securing of this program in Adelaide. The Labor Party senators in this chamber were utterly asleep. The bird has flown. Time is now against us, and action must be taken by a government that knows what it is doing. The fact is that the South Australian Labor government and the South Australian Labor senators sat on their hands and swallowed up the spin of their own government.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. General Cosgrove then went on to say in the same article:

There is nothing to be gained and everything to lose by dealing ourselves out of an industry we have spent 25 years building.

The best investment return for the Australian taxpayer is to continuously build and maintain our own fleet of submarines.

Was General Cosgrove correct?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Who said that? General Cosgrove?

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Your mate Cosgrove, Senator Johnston.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the Labor Party had got on with the job, General Cosgrove may well have been correct. This project came before the National Security Committee of Cabinet in November 2008. It was mentioned in the 2009 white paper. So here we are, down the track six years—and do I have to confront a contract? Do I have to confront a commitment or an obligation to do anything in South Australia? No.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, your own. Your commitment, your lies, to South Australians.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Look at those South Australian senators; they have been asleep.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What about your election promise?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You promised.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left!

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They have done nothing about an important piece of capability. And now they want to suggest that we should be obliged to pick up the pieces when time is completely against us. We will have a— (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, just before I give you the call for the final supplementary question, I will remind senators of the provisions of standing order 193—although we have not breached it—relating to reflections upon the Governor-General. I know the context in which you are asking the question—but also for the comments in the interjections also. Senator Wong, you have the call.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I note that South Australian opposition leader Steven Marshall has criticised the uncertainty created by the federal government, and that a senior federal South Australian Liberal has said the government has handled the submarine issue 'very badly'. Are Mr Marshall and this unnamed South Australian Liberal correct?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government has not made any decision with respect to submarines in the face of our white paper being delivered next year. We are currently working through the options, options which we found to be utterly fanciful and fantastic, from the Labor Party. When I opened the box marked 'SEA 1000' and looked inside, it was empty.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You lied to South Australians.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There was in fact a small cobweb in one corner. That is what the Labor Party delivered on submarines. And they have the audacity to ask me: 'What are you going to do?' What we are going to do is make sure that there will be no gap in capability in terms of submarines going forward. That is our first priority, given the folly of what you did.