Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Mental Health) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Indigenous Affairs (Senator Scullion) to questions without notice asked by Senators Sterle and McLucas today relating to the provision of services for Indigenous Australians and to staffing matters at the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet.

Labor senators are compelled to maintain a focus on Senator Scullion's answers in question time for two reasons: what he says—which is unbelievable in many circumstances—and the way he says it. Last week, when he was asked about staff morale in the Indigenous affairs section of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, he said that morale was at an all-time high and that people were delighted to be working for the new government. This beggars belief when many people know that people who are from—

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Name them!

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Mental Health) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Me. I know, Senator, because I have constituents talking to me. Many people on this side know that the morale in the Indigenous affairs section of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet is, as was quoted in the TheCanberra Times, at an all-time low.

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Oh, TheCanberra Times!

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Mental Health) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You do not have to listen to TheCanberra Times, just to your constituents, who might tell you what is really happening on the ground.

We are talking about a dedicated group of public servants who used to work in FaHCSIA and who were, with the machinery-of-government changes, moved across to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. They are good people, good public servants who have worked very hard to improve outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in this nation. They are dedicated to that mission and are feeling totally devalued by the internal machinations that have been going on.

I asked the minister how many people had taken redundancies. It has been quoted as 236. I asked the minister how many there had been. It will be in that folder, Senator Scullion, that you bring into question time. That is the folder that has the answers to questions that might turn up. If you open that folder and read the index, you might find the answer. I look forward to the moment when you come back into this place and tell us whether it is 236 people who have taken redundancies. That tells you something, though. It is said that 236 people have taken redundancies from this government. Whenever redundancies are offered, yes, there will certainly be people who want to take them. But the stories that I am hearing in Queensland, the Northern Territory and Western Australia are that people are so frustrated with what is occurring that they are giving up, moving on and finding some other way to work with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to achieve better outcomes for them.

I asked the minister whether morale was still at an all-time high, and he confirmed that he thought the morale in the department was fantastic. But in TheCanberra Times article of 12 September, the circumstances described do not match up with the minister's statement about 'all-time-high morale'. The article actually quotes his own department. It said:

The department admits that things are "difficult" but says it is working "towards building a cohesive department" after forced mergers saw it try to absorb an extra 1800 public servants.

The minister says: 'Everything is hunky-dory. Morale is at an all-time high.' Yet, even the department, when questioned by the media, are confirming that things are difficult. The departmental sources say that work is going on against a background of upheaval and disruption after several restructures and 236 redundancies, with senior executives and middle managers distracted by having to apply for their own jobs. The PM&C spokesperson said:

Change of this magnitude is always difficult, and we are continuing to work towards building a cohesive department … The effect of the efficiency dividend and the streamlined programme structure has seen a reduction of staff.

It is inconceivable that the minister could come into this place and flippantly say that everything is going fine and terrific when we know, not just from reading The Canberra Times but from the constituents and departmental staff in our communities, that things are not good. These are staff who want to work for the government of the day. They are good public servants. They are used to change. They can cope with change—but not like this. They are saying that we need to sheet this devaluing of their circumstances to the minister. (Time expired)

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is typical of the ALP, who are more interested in public servants in Canberra than they are about Indigenous Australians who live in the north of our country. The Labor Party and the other nanny-staters of the Left of Australian politics never understand that Indigenous people want to be treated like every other Australian, not with special treatment or the sort of rubbish you have just heard from Senator McLucas, worrying about public servants. They want a good education for their kids. They want a job. They want to be able to own their own house. After years and even decades of the nanny-staters and those who I think, quite frankly, are racist themselves, they do not want to be treated differently. They want to be like every other Australian. But, as long as you have Labor around, they will be treated as second-class citizens who need someone else to hold their hands. What they need—and this is something Labor has never understood—is a job. You cannot get a job when you knock back every single application that would provide work in places like Cape York, the Gulf, the Kimberley or the Northern Territory. What people need is a job, but Labor will not agree with that.

I must congratulate Senator Scullion for the magnificent job he has been doing in this area. He is doing what I think Indigenous people want, and that is converting 150 programs and services from eight government departments into just five focuses or five streams. One of them, importantly, is 'jobs, land and economy', and that is what I have just been talking about. The Labor Party never understands this. We need to have jobs and allow the economy to operate in areas where Indigenous people live, and that is principally in northern Australia. I certainly hope that the government's northern Australia white paper will focus heavily on economic opportunities for those who live in northern Australia, and they are, to a significant degree, Indigenous people.

Senator Scullion also has a focus on children and schooling. Again, that is something that I know Indigenous people want. They want their children to be well educated so they have a chance in this world. Safety and wellbeing is another focus. Given their own resources, Indigenous people can look after those issues far better than public servants sitting in their ivory towers in Canberra.

We also need remote strategies. I am pleased to say that our government has a plan for northern Australia, which is where most Indigenous people are. I say this with my fingers almost crossed because we have not seen the white paper yet. I for one will be following it very closely when it is released. It is a bit late already. It was supposed to be out within 12 months of the election, but it is better late than never. I look forward to seeing that white paper, and I certainly hope that it will have a focus on economic opportunities that will create the economy in northern Australia that will give Indigenous people employment, self-respect, eventually their own homes and an ability to encourage their children to go to school in order to get gainful employment in the areas where they currently live.

I give full credit to Senator Scullion. He has taken on this role and is working with Indigenous people on what we know Indigenous people want. Principally, I repeat, that is to be treated like every other Australian, not to be dealt with as different people or people incapable of looking after themselves, as seems to be the Labor way. We do not want teams of public servants in Canberra trying to tell Indigenous people up in northern Australia how they should run their lives. Senator McLucas's concern for sacked public servants in Canberra over the interests of Indigenous people in the North just amazes me.

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What an extraordinary contribution that was from Senator Macdonald! I had the full intention of rising to talk about Indigenous people and remote Australia, particularly my area of work in the Kimberley. There may be some smart-arse comments—

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry, I retract that. I got distracted by the peanut from South Australia.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Glenn Sterle (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw that. I take that back. What a stupid contribution that was from Senator Macdonald. He talked about giving Aboriginal kids and Aboriginal families the opportunity for an education. Well, Senator Macdonald—through you, Mr Deputy President—I am going to help you out. One of my passions is Aboriginal kids getting access to education. It is not only my passion but also the passion of Mr Andrew Forrest. We saw the Forrest report. The first point that came out of the Forrest report was that the No. 1 issue was to give Aboriginal kids in remote Australia in particular access to early childhood education. No-one in this chamber or anyone with half a brain—I will be careful how I put that—would argue that Aboriginal kids should not get access to early childhood education.

In the previous governments—the Rudd and Gillard governments—we spent some $300-odd million of taxpayers' funds building childhood and family centres. There are four in Western Australia. One is in Roebourne. For your benefit, Senator Abetz—through you, Mr Deputy President—you should go and visit them. You might learn something. There is one in Fitzroy Crossing, called Baya Gawiy. There is the Little Nuggets centre in Halls Creek and one in Kununurra. We funded them. The previous Labor government funded them to the tune of $950,000. Unlike where some of the mob opposite might come from—the leafy suburbs of Melbourne, Sydney Adelaide and Perth—they do not have the ability to raise their own funds. They have been and are still doing a fantastic job to give Aboriginal kiddies and—shock, horror!—white kids the opportunity to get ready for preschool or kindergarten.

The mob on the other side, through Mr Abbott, who calls himself the Prime Minister for Indigenous affairs, have decided to take the axe to that vital funding. They have chucked that funding out. There is no more funding, yet I have to sit here and listen to Senator Macdonald talk about the opportunity for Aboriginal kids to get an education. How the heck can they when the government are cutting their funding?

You do not have to take it from me. You can take it from someone who is probably one of the most respected Aboriginal leaders in this country. I actually call her a friend—Mrs June Oscar, a senior Bunuba woman from Fitzroy Crossing. I want to quote some words from Mrs Oscar. She says that:

… the Fitzroy community faced a crisis, as many child-protection workers, police, teachers and medical staff had children who used the centre.

That is the Baya Gawiy Child and Family Centre in Fitzroy Crossing, which this mob refused to fund. She goes on to say:

They could be forced to stop work or leave the region … We cannot continue in this state of quandary—it impacts on our kids, the retention of staff, jobs and service delivery …

That is from one of the most respected Aboriginal women in the country.

I cannot believe that senators opposite can have the audacity to stand here and push forward their credentials when their credentials are cutting vital funding streams to projects in the Kimberly region—and in South Australia, if Senator Gallacher is there—through the APY Lands and in Queensland and the Northern Territory, where all of a sudden we will just stop funding this opportunity for kids and for families, Aboriginal and white, to get access not only to early childhood programs but to the very vital area of allied health. And this is going to come as a bigger shock, but Fitzroy Crossing, some 300 kilometres from Derby and 450 kilometres from Broome, does not have resident speech therapists. The therapists for that mob over that side actually visit from Broome, or, at the Little Nuggets centre in Halls Creek, they come down from Kununurra. These centres actually provide the opportunity for kids to have access to allied health while they are there too.

It appals me when I have to listen to senators on that side all of a sudden become the experts in Aboriginal Australia. Now, I take nothing away from Senator Macdonald; he is based out in the country. But the rest of them have no idea. I just think Senator Macdonald was, sadly, just trying to defend the indefensible. He was trying to defend a government decision that deep down in his heart he could not sit here and look me in the eye and say he agrees with. I wish I had more time.

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too rise to take note of answers given by Minister Scullion. But before I move on to that, I want to say that the previous contribution was somewhat disappointing. I would have expected somewhat more. I quite like Senator Sterle. We work very collegiately in another forum, on a committee. But just invoking the class warfare again, distinguishing people by where they live, is exactly the problem that has gone on in this country for too long. If you live in a leafy suburb you are to be prejudiced; if you live in the bush—well, I tell you. I am done listening to the opposition invoking that.

And we had that with their leader—the old class warfare. What can you expect? We had the issue of their leader, Mr Bill Shorten, on the back of a truck down in Adelaide invoking racism and protectionism against one of our biggest trading partners. Fortunately you, Senator Gallacher, were down in Tasmania to get away from the fiasco. But I just find it somewhat disingenuous to talk about what we are doing when Minister Scullion, on his own account—and he can account for himself—can walk seamlessly through any Aboriginal community in this country. He is well known and well respected. I am not here to defend him; his record will stand alone. But it is my understanding that we are looking to deliver services in the lands in which they are most needed, and that is not in the bureaucracy in Canberra.

Senator McLucas is another person I would have thought would have understood the fact that we want to deliver outcomes in outback Australia, like the initiative of 73 schools in 69 of the most disadvantaged communities across Australia. That is what is driving real gains in Aboriginal communities around Australia. And on the school attendance rate, we are spending $18 million over two years to get children back at school. It is the key to equipping Indigenous youth to face all the challenges of the future. We have to intercept these children from birth—actually, from conception. That is what we have to do. You talk about the Forrest review. I applaud the work that was done in the west with the Forrest review, and I think Senator Sterle in his contribution could have been more effusive in outlining what it is that we could achieve with bipartisan support instead of taking cheap political shots on something that is very, very serious.

My own experience is with the Ngaanyatjarra people, to the east of Western Australia—an area the size of Tasmania, Senator Bushby. Those people want to go to work. Those people are engaged with the minister. Those people there are a proud people, people who understand what it is to have a job and to offer a future for their young people, to build communities around commercial outcomes. They want to farm camels, because in the last government, under the Caring for Our Country program, we spent $16.6 million trying to wipe out the camel population, and I guess it was tantamount to trying to take a drop out of a bucket. The camels are still coming. But the Aboriginal people of Central Australia see the commercial benefit of farming these animals, sending them to Peterborough in South Australia, providing an enormous amount of employment and selling camel meat, camel milk and camel skins around the world. The Moroccan Army has an infinite order in for as many camels as we can supply them. We cannot supply them. The Aboriginal people of the Ngaanyatjarra are right across this. The people of the APY Lands understand the commercial imperative, and they want to get onboard.

These are the things we have to do to empower, and that is what Minister Scullion is about. He understands that he was left with a basket case of a budget after the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd period, and he has gone about systematically, methodically getting his portfolio back into shape so that the Aboriginal people of this country have something to look forward to.

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have had a look back at the series of questions the Minister for Indigenous Affairs has been asked about cuts to the Aboriginal budget—cuts to organisations including the very serious issue in the north-west of Western Australia with the children and family centres. They have been cut right across the country. I think Senator Scullion is the minister for platitudes. That is all we have had from him. Today he started off by telling us that there was no point asking him. Well he is the minister and he is responsible. That was one answer to a question, and he went on to answer other questions by telling us that his staff were buoyant. He said that a number of times. Then we asked him about the serious concerns of the Senior Australian of the Year, Fred Chaney—one of their own; they like to throw up Martin Ferguson and Paul Howes and others to us. Fred Chaney is a respected senior Australian, a person with expertise in the Aboriginal community, but the minister completely disregarded and dismissed the very valid concerns he had about what is happening with Aboriginal funding. The minister assured us that we had absolutely nothing to worry about. When senior respected Australians very experienced in Aboriginal affairs say there is something to worry about, which is what Fred Chaney has said, I will put my money on Fred Chaney—there is obviously something to worry about.

Last week when we pursued questions to the minister for platitudes about the closure of children and family centres particularly in Western Australia but right across the country, his answer was 'so be it.' They are just shutting those centres down. We heard from government senators today trying to convince us that they are concerned about the wellbeing and the advancement of Aboriginal people in this country. If they are genuinely concerned it is time they held their own government to account. Of course we have to improve the educational levels of Australia's children, particularly vulnerable children—and a number of Aboriginal children unfortunately fall into that category—but you do not improve children's education by cutting children and family services. I met face to face with the Western Australian state government bureaucrats, and they told me that they were so concerned about the closure of the centres that they put $1 million of Western Australian money into those Western Australian centres to keep them open until December. That impost of $1 million on the Western Australian budget simply cannot be contained, but they are very serious and very concerned about the ongoing viability of the services.

I just do not know how in anyone's imagination you could possibly justify not continuing to fund these children and family centres. Because it is Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing and all of the other remote and rural places these centres are in, it seems that out of sight is out of mind. I am sick to death of the minister for platitudes coming in here and telling us that there have been no cuts to the Aboriginal budget. Our Prime Minister declares himself as some kind of Aboriginal advocate, but we have been left wanting and waiting. In the budget Mr Hockey did not once mention Aboriginal people, and there are no innovative new programs. All we keep hearing about here is getting children to school. Improving education is much more than getting kids to school—it starts with children from birth. The government completely disregards that, and it is going to allow these children and family centres to close in December. That disgrace will be on their watch and Aboriginal families will not forget it.

Question agreed to.