Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. Can the minister confirm that in May this year officials from the minister's department and the Defence Materiel Organisation met with their Japanese counterparts in Tokyo to discuss the purchase of Japanese submarines? Can he confirm that a member of the Prime Minister's staff participated in those discussions?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not have at my fingertips the schedule and timetable of the various departmental officers' visitations to Japan—or any other country for that matter. Senior officials in the Defence Department, of their own discretion, can visit countries around the world in pursuit of Australia's best interests in terms of defence capability. We have signed with the Japanese a defence technology exchange agreement and, in the preparation of that agreement, there were a number of meetings with our friends in Japan. There have of course been meetings with a broad range of people—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I cannot hear myself think in the face of this incessant nagging and cackle.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left and on my right! Minister.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

With respect to AUKMIN, AUSMIN and visitations to Singapore, Japan and South Korea we—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, you have a point of order?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, on relevance. Mr President, there were two questions asked of the minister. The second question was: 'Can he confirm that a member of the Prime Minister's staff participated in those discussions?' The minister has made no attempt, with only 30-odd seconds left, to answer that part of the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

At the commencement of the minister's answer he indicated that he did not have the schedule to confirm—

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Senator Conroy, you have raised a point of order and I am giving a ruling on the point of order. The minister was directly relevant to both of your questions by indicating that he did not have the schedule and he could not confirm out of the schedule—and he is enhancing his answer, which he has the right to do.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald, I really do not need assistance but if there is something that you need to add to this—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, my point of order is very important. I am desperately trying to hear the minister because I am very interested in his response. But we keep hearing the Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition screeching, nagging and yelling and I simply cannot hear the minister.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call the minister I remind all senators that interjections are disorderly. Senator Wong, you have a point of order?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, in terms of your answer to Senator Conroy, the question in fact did go to a member of the Prime Minister's staff. The answer that the schedule of meetings of officials is not something the minister recalls is not relevant to that aspect of the question. So I would invite you to consider that in light of your ruling.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Wong, but the question did ask whether the minister could confirm that a member of the Prime Minister's staff attended. The minister directly answered that question at the commencement of his answer by saying he did not have a schedule of all the visits to all countries. I thought he was quite conclusive with his direct response—and he is enhancing his answer. Minister, you have the call.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Further to what I have said, if the learned senator had any understanding of defence capability acquisition he would know that we are currently in the process of acquiring ships from both Spain and South Korea. Accordingly, Defence officials visit those places on many occasions. We are also acquiring a lot of capability from the United States. There are Defence officials visiting these countries every week of every month of every year.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, who did the Prime Minister's staffer take instructions from during his visit to Tokyo and who did he report to on his return?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

With the greatest respect to the senator, this is a complete waste of the Senate's time. I was not there. I have not had the benefit of a minute-by-minute commentary on what took place, and where, with respect to any of these matters. I would have thought, with this particular capability, you would have had a better question.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the Prime Minister's office or the defence minister have carriage of this procurement project?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ultimately the government of the nation has ownership of the policy surrounding our most strategic and complex defence acquisitions. Let me just pause to say that I wish it was just that simple—mopping up the mess of five years of nothingness after the Labor Party promised the sun and the moon and delivered nothing. So—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Minister.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In short, on this project the government is effectively back in 2008. We are starting afresh because nothing has been done. What is worse, the program has had all of the money taken out of it whilst you were promising 12 submarines.