Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. I refer the minister to evidence given to the Senate by submarine expert and retired Commodore, Paul Greenfield, who said:

An Australian build should be no more expensive than an overseas build. The sail away cost of $20 billion for 12 submarines built in Australia is entirely feasible.

Given that the Senate has also heard evidence that it is possible to undertake the competitive tender process and avoid a capability gap, will the minister now commit to one?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is a very complex program, a complex project, that has fallen completely into disrepair over the last six years. It went before NSC in 2008. There were promises given. The former Labor government promised in 2007 that there would be, in fact, a first pass for 12 submarines in 2011. Where does that failure leave us? Prime Minister Gillard in 2012 said there would be a first pass in 2013-14. Guess what—nothing happened. Labor promised a decision for a land based test site for submarine propulsion by 2012. Guess what—nothing happened. The fact is that, for the last six years, your state, which prides itself as being a defence state, has sat on its hands, grizzling and whingeing about what this government might do, but has said nothing for six years. When you were in government you said nothing about submarines. Indeed, all of your South Australian colleagues just sat there. All you could mouth was: '12 submarines for Adelaide.' Walt Disney himself could not have come up with a submarine to fit the bill that you designed in 2009. When I was down in Adelaide talking about what we wanted to do with submarines, I said—and if you want to read it, you can see it—'Unless the options put on the table by the then minister were fantasy, we would go with the work that I perceived that he had honestly done'. He had done no work, and you shut up about it. You never said a word. (Time expired)

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer the minister to Mr Mark Thomson of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, ASPI, who said, 'competition gives you the ability to negotiate the best price, ensures you get the submarine you need with the best technologies we can afford and also enables you to get the best on-through life-support.' Why is the minister ignoring industry and defence experts when it comes to such a vital defence acquisition?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The simple answer is that I am struggling to work out what technology we need, because you did no work. After six years, I do not have a contract; I do not have an obligation. I showed you the design yesterday of Labor's new submarine—a beautiful blank piece of paper. That is what you have bequeathed to us. When you had your inquiry, you just wanted to ignore the words of Rear Admiral Sammut, a very skilled engineer and submariner, and the words of Warren King. He said that we are now in a critical point of time in the submarine program due to the lengthy processes that are still yet to commence. That is Warren King, the head of the DMO. I do not care what you say or do to me, but the fact is that you did nothing. You should take some responsibility and be honest about it.

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer the minister to the better-late-than-never intervention of his colleagues Senator Edwards, Senator Ruston and Senator Fawcett, who have joined Labor's call to hold a competitive tender process for Australia's future submarines. If the minister will not listen to the experts and will not listen to the industry, will he at least listen to his Liberal colleagues and commit to a competitive tender for our future submarines?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am glad you have raised my Liberal colleagues from South Australia, because they have been most supportive and helpful in taking this program forward in a sensible and proper way. They understand and have been talking to me about the need to progress submarines in Australia. You and all of your South Australian senators just sat there for six years doing nothing. My colleagues are saying—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I just want to point out that all remarks both with the question and certainly with the answer must be directed to the chair, not across the chamber.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My colleagues have been extremely supportive of the action we have undertaken, given that we are starting from zero. We are starting from zero—and, of course, you never ask the right questions. Submarines are a hot topic; how many submarines questions were asked at estimates last Wednesday? I think you will find very close to a round number before one! That is how concerned you people are over there.