Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence. I refer the minister to reports that Australian soldiers in the Middle East have condemned the government's offer of a real pay cut to ADF personnel, with a senior non-commissioned officer saying: 'No change would have been better. [Expletive deleted] pay decrease more like it.' Given that the minister told the Senate yesterday that 'We're not cutting the pay of ADF personnel' who is correct, the front-line soldier or the minister?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I must say, I am very pleased with this question. At estimates last week we glossed over what is a very important subject that was dealt with very parsimoniously, may I say, by a thoroughly disinterested shadow minister.

A government senator: He didn't even turn up!

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ten pages of Hansard!

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left!

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The fact Senator Conroy would not want to come to terms with is that for the first time in six years the Australian government has put proper resourcing on the table for the Defence portfolio, with a view to rebuilding—particularly the capital account that was so viciously savaged by the incompetence of the last government. What the CDF—if the senator had the capacity to understand the way the Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal works—has sought to do is balance his budget in confronting a number of significant challenges—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is a frontline soldier right, or are you?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

given that Labor took Defence as a share of GDP down to 1.56 per cent—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, a point of order on direct relevance: Senator Conroy's question was about the quantum of the pay rise and whether the serving soldier was correct or the minister in his statement.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have noticed, in recent days, when questions are being asked in relation to who is correct, a context has to be put around that. The minister is putting context around that question. In relation to that context, he is addressing the material parts of the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: I would respectfully—

Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Macdonald; I will determine that.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, and I appreciate the leniency from the chair, Mr President.

A government senator: Indulgence!

Indulgence—whatever you would like me to call it.

A government senator interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, please!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are so gracious, aren't you? Mr President, I understand the point that you have made. I would ask you to consider whether or not a reference to the capital account, which has nothing to do with wages, a reference to Defence expenditure as a share of GDP, which is not about wages, can possibly be appropriate context to a question about whether or not a front-line soldier or the minister is correct on wage cuts.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Wong. They are not matters for me to determine. I am here to facilitate the questions—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Order! Senator Wong, you are reflecting on the chair at the moment.

Senator Wong interjecting—

If you want me to explain, you have to listen and not constantly interject. Context has to be given to the answer of a question. It is not for me to determine the exact nature or the detail of the context. The mere fact is the minister has been, in my view, relevant to the question. The question had a lot of preamble, in relation to that question, with references. The minister has been referring to those references that I heard in the question. Minister, you have the call.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, what the CDF has had to confront in this very difficult financial, challenging time is that his budget was taken down to 1.56 per cent of GDP. The last time it was there was 1938.

Senator Conroy interjecting —

The shadow minister does not understand the way the system works, because if he did he would know the decision has been reserved. There has been no decision.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Ten pages of Hansard! It's your policy.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So getting up and saying there is a cut discloses that you are continually dripping in ignorance.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a supplementary question. I refer the minister to Senate estimates last week. When asked whether the new ADF pay deal was fair, the minister answered, 'Yes, it is.' Given the concerns of front-line soldiers, does the minister stand by his statement at Senate estimates?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In the context of the financial mess that was bequeathed to us by the most incompetent financial managers this country has ever seen, I have got to say, what the Abbot government does with finance today is almost a modern miracle, given where we have come from. Below base trajectory to $666 billion worth of debt—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Paid cuts!

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This minister alone has wasted $30 billion. He is a gold-medal prospect in financial Olympic mismanagement. There he has the audacity to jump up and ask me a question about the way we run and try to repair Defence budgets—when they savaged it, attacked it, ripped it off and treated Defence with utter contempt.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a further supplementary question. I refer the minister to the Returned and Services League national president, who said the RSL is 'very disappointed' with the measly ADF pay offer. Given that serving front-line soldiers are outraged by the pay decrease and the RSL are against it, when will the minister use his powers, under section 58B of the Defence Act, to intervene and get a better deal for ADF personnel?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If you were to look at section 58H you would know that I have no powers. But, of course, you cannot even read the statute. Worse than that, I know what the head of the RSL said about the notes he gave you to ask the questions at Senate estimates and, may I say, he is extremely disappointed!

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You've got the weakest bunch ever. What a joke!

Senator Back interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cameron and Senator Back.