Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence. I refer the minister to his answer yesterday when he claimed that he had no power to intervene on the government's decision to cut the real pay the Australian Defence Force personnel. Does the minister stand by this claim, despite telling Senate estimates last week that he does have a role under the Defence Act 1903? And I quote: 'The Minister for Defence has a role. That is section 58B.' Will the minister now correct the record? I seek leave to table section 58B and Hansard from last week in Senate estimates.

Leave granted.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

For the benefit of Senator Conroy, part 3A of the act that he talks about establishes a scheme whereby that remunerations, allowances and benefits afforded to members of the Defence Force are to be determined by the minister under section 58B. The minister may make a determination under section 58B in relation to, among other things, remuneration. But if the senator had the vaguest capacity to read a piece of legislation he would know that, under section 58H, if the matter goes before the Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal the minister, in 58B, has no role. Of course, given that the shadow minister's performance in managing various projects in the past, it is obvious that he cannot, even after many years in this place, read a simple statute. He is a senator who cannot read the law. If I take you to 58H(14), it simply sets it out. I am happy to further spoonfeed the shadow minister on the fundamentals of the way the system works, but I fear that I will be wasting my time.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I again refer the minister to his answer yesterday, when he claimed that he also has no powers under section 58H of the Defence Act when it comes to ADF pay. Isn't it the case that section 58H specifically allows the minister to request the Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal to reconsider its determinations? Minister, will you again correct the record and commit to use these powers to request a— (Time expired)

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is the point that I make: the minister referred to in 58H is not me. In this instance it is the minister for state. If you knew how it worked, if you understood the administrative arrangements order made in December, which is exactly the same as that made by the Labor Party back in May of the same year, it sets out that it is a different minister.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Order! Minister, you have the call.

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not know what more I need to do other than to conduct a tutorial for the shadow minister. I am happy to do that, but, again, I think I will be disappointed as to his capacity to digest the legislation.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I again refer the minister to his answer yesterday, when he claimed that the head of the Returned and Services League gave the opposition notes to ask questions at Senate estimates about ADF pay. I can inform the Senate that the shadow minister for veterans' affairs has been in contact with the head of the RSL this morning, and he has confirmed that this claim is simply not true. Will the minister now, again, correct the record and acknowledge that his claims and remarks yesterday about the RSL in the Senate were wrong?

David Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have spent a lot of time with a lot of people, Senator Conroy, and when they talk about your performance in Senate estimates they are clearly indicating a huge degree of disappointment: no questions about submarines, a cursory question about defence, even though people out there are coaching you. I have to tell you, you need to do a lot better.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Direct your comments to the chair, Senator Johnston. Have you concluded your answer, Minister?

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I was on my feet before Minister Johnston—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Moore, a point of order?

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I was on my feet before the minister completed his answer, and my point of order is just to say that the minister got nowhere near the question and that there is no apology to the RSL on record.