Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer to the Prime Minister's comments at the G20 over the weekend that:

… we have tried to deregulate higher education, universities, and that's going to mean less central government spending and effectively more fees that students will have to pay.

In light of this belated admission, can the minister advise the Senate how much more the government will force students to pay?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Australian people understand that what the government is on about in this space is getting the best possible value for every single dollar contributed by the Australian taxpayer. The Australian people also understand that, if one has the privilege of a tertiary education, over their lifetime that person is likely to earn an extra $1 million. It therefore stands to reason that the truck drivers and other people in our community who pay taxes on a regular basis should not be subsidising from their lower wages the opportunity for others to learn so much more than they do.

This is about equity. This is about securing the future of our universities. This is about ensuring that they will be internationally competitive in the years ahead. What Minister Pyne has been able to achieve is a mechanism whereby the Australian taxpayer can make a lesser contribution but which will still increase the overall funding pool available to universities through opening up spaces and, as a result, making universities even more viable with even more money.

With the free trade agreement and growing relationship between Australia and China, I hope that there will be even more international students coming to Australia, making an even greater contribution to the total pool of money available to tertiary institutions in this country. This is about guaranteeing the future of our universities. That is why organisations after organisations have come out to support us.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer the minister to the Treasurer's comments as reported in the Australian Financial Review on 4 November. He said, 'We will find any way we can to take the money out of universities.' Can the minister outline exactly how much more the government plans to rip out of universities and how the Treasurer proposes to do that?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Carr is a great master of giving us quotes in this place. He has done it now for a couple of decades. The quotes are nearly always out of context. So I will look very carefully at the full quote above that which the honourable senator put to us just then.

We have been regaled with examples from Minister Pyne, day after day, in question time telling the Australian people that this university organisation or that university organisation, including regional universities, support this proposal. Why do you think that is? Is it because they are going to get less money overall? Absolutely not. Will there be less money via the long-suffering Australian taxpayer? Possibly so. Will the total haul of money available increase? Yes, it will. (Time expired)

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a further supplementary question. Can the minister explain how the Prime Minister's and the Treasurer's comments are consistent with the Prime Minister's pre-election commitment that there would be no cuts to education?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am delighted to talk about consistency. In the 2013-14 budget of the Labor Party, $902.7 million was taken by an efficiency dividend from most grants to universities. There was the removal of the 10 per cent HECS-HELP discount and the five per cent HELP repayment bonus from 1 January 2014—$276 million. There was the conversion of student start-up scholarships to student loans.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I have a point of order on direct relevance. Senator Carr's question was specifically about the Prime Minister and this government's promises for no cuts to education. That was the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind the minister of the question. He has 29 seconds left to answer the question.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President, but I am sure you noted that the question was prefaced with the concern for consistency by the honourable senator. That is why I am pointing out to the honourable senator his and the Labor Party's inconsistency—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On a point of order, Mr President: I asked an explicit question about the consistency of the Prime Minister's statements before and after the election. While you are at it, you can tell us how it was that we increased funding for universities by nearly 100 per cent.

Government senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, on my right! Senator Carr, on the first part of your point of order—I take note that the second part was not in order; it was debating and adding new material—I did remind the minister of the question that was asked. I remind the minister again that he has 15 seconds left to answer the question.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Seeing that I cannot quote the whole list, it does total $6.655 billion over five Labor budgets. So please do not come in here—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on a point of order: again it is on direct relevance. We drew the attention of the minister to the question, and he just ignored that direction.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So there is no inconsistency with that which the Prime Minister and the Treasurer— (Time expired)