Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Defence (Senator Johnston) to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.

It really is quite interesting to watch a ministerial career disintegrating before our eyes. We have a minister in Senator Johnston who does not have the confidence of his Prime Minister, who does not have the confidence of the Australian public, who does not have the confidence of his own backbench. This is a minister who is incompetent and cannot deliver in the interests of Australia's defence priorities.

And it is not just the opposition senators that are saying this. As the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Wong, drew to our attention, the South Australian parliament has unanimously passed a resolution condemning Senator Johnston. I want to read what the South Australian parliament says. This is Independents, Labor, Liberal—it is all parties in that House. It says that the Premier will move that the South Australian Parliament: '(a) condemns the remarks of the Commonwealth Minister for Defence that he would "not trust the Australian Submarine Corporation to build a canoe", (b) reaffirms its support for ASC workers and all other South Australians employed in the defence industry, (c) demands that the Abbott Liberal government upholds its election commitment to build the 12 future submarines in Adelaide, and (d) notes that Australians should have the right to trust the word of their leaders when it comes to decisions that affect the national security of this country.' Mr Deputy President, I seek leave to table the resolution of the South Australian parliament.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is leave granted?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Leave is not granted.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Incompetence again.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Abetz, from the sidelines, talks about incompetence. If anyone has seen incompetence, it is the ministerial team in this chamber. The most incompetent has been Senator Johnston. Only a whisker behind him is Senator Abetz, who has delivered on absolutely nothing that he promised before the election. That is the nature of this coalition: promise much, deliver nothing, and just lie to the Australian public. It is about lying to the Australian public. That resolution has been passed by all parties in the South Australian parliament. It goes to the issue of lies. It goes to the issue of trust.

And when Senator Johnston made that infamous remark about honest, hardworking, highly skilled Australians not being able to build a canoe, he sat there thinking he had done a great thing—that it was fantastic. He sat smirking, he sat laughing and he was full of arrogance. But the look of horror behind him was good to see because people knew that this was an issue that South Australians held dearly. They want a defence industry in South Australia and this incompetent minister has not delivered despite giving a promise to South Australians that the submarines would be built in South Australia.

This is a government that has come to power based on lies. This is a government that cannot be trusted. This is a government that is incompetent. And this is a government that contains members and senators from South Australia that do not have any backbone, that do not have any capacity to stand up for their own state. They will not stand up for the Australian defence industry, they will not stand up for the families in South Australia, they will not stand up for the skills and they will not stand up for the capacity of the industry in South Australia. They are weak kneed, they are jelly backed and they are incompetent. Where are the people standing up in South Australia for jobs in South Australia? It is not the weak kneed South Australians senators in this place. This minister should go.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is leave granted for Senator Cameron to table a document?

Leave is granted.

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What an intemperate pile of drivel. This debate is squarely aimed at trying to vilify a person who is scrambling to fill a void which you left. Senator Cameron comes in here and talks about the activities of this government when he, while sitting around on the fringes of the Labor reign of power, did nothing. Let us look at the record of those opposite. The then leader, Kevin Rudd said we will build these submarines at the ASC in about 2017. Now that is not far from here. So what did those opposite do? Did they sign a contract? Did they go out and look for procurement? No. In the 2010 campaign they told us, 'We promise to build the submarines at ASC in Adelaide.' What did they do? Did they go out and ask for contracts? No, they did nothing.

Do you know what those opposite did in the lead-up to the 2013 election? Mr Shorten, in the lead-up to the 2013 election, did not promise anything. Those opposite did not even have a defence policy. They got sick of promising it. They did not mention the 'submarine' word. They just ran out of puff. Actually, they ran out of money. Do you know what was going on? At the heart of the issue was the competence of that government.

Those opposite seem quite shrill over there. I see Senator Cameron has left the chamber. He needs to be reminded of why those opposite did not commit to submarine builds—they ran out of other people's money. They ran out of taxpayers' money. That is why they did not build them. There was $19.6 billion pulled out of that budget and those opposite sit there after 12 months of us being in power saying 'if you are going to build them, build them here'. How extraordinary. The people listening to this—

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How extraordinary to want to build something in Australia.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Acting Deputy President Marshall, you had better check with the attendants: I am not sure but I think there might be a seagull in the chamber somewhere. The $16 billion is what happened—the lowest levels of spending on defence since 1938. It was incompetence writ large. In 2012-13, Labor made the largest single cut to the defence budget since the end of the Korean conflict. Labor cut 10.5 per cent more from the budget. On Labor's watch, the Australian defence industry shed more than 10 per cent of its workforce because of budget cuts and deferrals.

How was the record of those opposite on open tenders? Out of 77-odd, I think there were about 70 that never got put out for open tender. As those opposite know over there, I am an advocate for an open tender on this program. Do you know why? Because it is the single biggest defence infrastructure project in this nation's history. And who is doing it? We are. What did those opposite do? Zero, nothing. And how shrill they sound. They ran out of money.

Those opposite do not even know how to manage money because they never have. All they have ever had to do is give their union dues and look after their numbers at their next preselection, and that is the only counting they have ever done. They have never had a bank manager. There are a couple of you over there on the other side, I must give you your due, that have run a business. But the only counting those opposite have ever done is vote to get elected to this place. That is what happens.

We are getting about and doing what we have to do to bring this project back into order to address the essential security of this country. It is so important to our front-line defence. What did those opposite do with it? Nothing. We are doing something about it and we are doing it now.

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I acknowledge the contribution of my good friend Senator Edwards from South Australia, who has been working with us quite closely on the reports our committee has been doing on the future of Australian shipbuilding. I note that he is saying a very different thing in this chamber than what he said when he was out there talking to the South Australia media.

It is time for the defence minister to go. Uniformed members of the ADF say it is time for him to go. His former long-serving staff say that it is time for him to go. The party backbench says it is time for him to go. And today we learned that the assistant minister says that David Johnston is already gone. The Financial Review scuttlebutts have duly reported a tip-off today that Assistant Minister for Defence, Stuart Robert, described Johnston as 'a goner' within earshot of everyone in business class on a Virgin flight out of Canberra last week. He did not even feel the need to bother to whisper it.

Also speaking up for everyone to hear is Johnston's former staffer, Russell Stranger. After more than a dozen years of service as a senior adviser, Mr Stranger has unloaded on his former boss, who he now describes as 'toothless' and 'incidental'. Mr Stranger has spent 12 years propping up the senator from WA, but the Australian people have taken less than 12 months to figure out that this minister is a dud. Certainly, the Prime Minister knows his minister needs to go. In Russell Stranger's words:

Senator Johnston has been relegated by the Prime Minister’s office to a role as an incidental minister …

This is from a man who knows Senator Johnston only too well.

Senator Johnston is a sheep in sheep's clothing. By his own admission, he has nothing to add. When asked by the press why he skipped a National Security Committee meeting in October he replied:

I wasn’t going to add too much …

These are the senator's own words. I could not agree with Senator Johnston more!

But the defence minister's word is not always reliable. No, we must never take him at his word. We cannot take this government, that will go down in history for its falsehoods and as led by a Prime Minister who has repeatedly told mistruths to Australia, at its word. Senator Johnston was also less than truthful when he promised to build submarines in Adelaide.

Senator Johnston is not just an accident waiting to happen; he is an accident that will not stop happening. In this place almost exactly one week ago, his slur against the men and women of the ASC left his own party members dazed and confused. He knows the Liberal Party senators from South Australia, be they Senator Birmingham, Senator Edwards, Senator Fawcett or Senator Ruston, have spoken out against the proposals that he has been floating.

Senator Johnston's own pay deal for our defence forces on the eve of Christmas holidays has shown us just how poorly he values the work of our uniformed personnel. Today, he tried to claim again during question time that he has a great relationship with our defence forces. But, Mr Deputy President, can you imagine how embarrassed they must be by his bumbling, mumbling and stumbling? Prime Minister Tony Abbott will not even stand beside Senator Johnston. Last week, the Prime Minister was spotted in his courtyard on Monday, rubbing his hands and begging for forgiveness, with his own defence minister nowhere to be seen. We say: enough! Bring this sad mess to a sad end. What on earth is Senator Johnston waiting for? Christmas? The New Year? Another crisis? It is simply time for him to go.

The soldiers, the sailors, the airmen and the civilians who toil to keep us safe every day—these men and women deserve better. I say to the Prime Minister: it is time to take action on Senator Johnston. Listen to your own backbenchers who think it is time for him to go. Listen to the uniformed members of the ADF who think it is time for him to go. Listen to Senator Johnston's former staff who clearly think it is time for him to go. The assistant minister said it loud enough for everyone in business class to hear last week, that he is a goner. Nobody deserves Senator Johnston, not even Tony Abbott.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is 'Mr Abbott' to you!

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am sure that the former speaker was referring to the Prime Minister, 'Mr' Abbott when he shut down his so-called words of wisdom.

I find it amazing that those opposite are making a big political issue out of the building of the submarines. The first question you ask is: what did the Labor Party do for the construction of submarines in the six years they were in government? The answer is very simple—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Nothing!

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Abetz, I will take your interjection! Of course, the answer is simple: 'nothing'. Nothing at all. Hang on—we actually got that wrong. They did one thing: they talked about it.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They announced it!

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Like many things, they made announcements. But, of course, actions speak louder than words, and they never did a thing as far as improving our Defence Force to keep our nation safe and secure.

The hysteria of the Labor Party on this issue must end. They must put national security ahead of supporting their union mates. The government's approach to acquire the submarines follows exactly the same process as that in place for all major defence projects since the 2003 Kinnaird reforms to defence procurement. This process has been used by previous governments, and was the same process that was going to be used by Labor if they ever got around to making any decisions.

We will follow due process. There will be a thorough, two-pass cabinet process and we will receive advice from our defence chiefs and procurement experts to ensure we get the very best capability at the best value for taxpayer dollars.

It is amazing that under Labor, $16 billion was cut from defence—$16 billion: a fact. The share of GDP spent on defence had fallen to 1.56 per cent, its lowest level since 1938. That is absolutely disgusting! How could the previous Labor government treat our Defence Force with such disdain; to cut, cut and cut and now leave us in the situation of the lowest percentage of GDP since 1938? This was just prior to World War II, of course! That is what our predecessors did to our Defence Force.

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And we're fixing it!

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is exactly right—I will take your interjection, Senator Edwards. We are out there to fix their mess. That is a thing that we have to do all the time: fix their mess—especially the financial mess they left us in, as they have done for all of my life. Ever since I left school at the end of 1972, whenever there is a Labor government and then they are thrown out of government, how are the books? The books are terrible! How is the bank account? The bank account is empty! How is the overdraft? The overdraft is bigger!

That is the history right throughout of Labor governments' management of money, whether it be at a state level—from Victoria to South Australia to New South Wales to Western Australia to Tasmania—or a federal level. The Hawke-Keating government left $96 billion of debt at the end of their era in 1996. Who cleaned up the mess? The coalition government of course, under John Howard as Prime Minister and Peter Costello as Treasurer. The challenge we have now is to clean up your financial mess—almost $350 billion of debt as of last Friday—and here we are trying to put our budget back together so that we have money to spend on very important issues like defence, but you will not help us to get our budget in order.

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What about paid parental leave?

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Even $5 billion of savings that you were going to put forward, Senator Dastyari—through you, Mr Deputy President—you now oppose. You oppose your own savings! How ironic is that? How hypocritical is that? You are here to obstruct. I will tell you now: if the budget is not brought into order it will lead to one thing down the road; in five, 10 or 15 years' times it will lead to higher taxes. As the debt goes up and the interest bill goes up, higher taxes will be inevitable.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Do you think taxes might rise in 15 years?

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When we hit the brick wall of debt, Senator Carr, because of the actions of people like you—you are content to mortgage our grandchildren's futures away without any concerns about their financial situation—we will look back and we will look on you as the money wreckers who blocked our savings to get the budget in order. That is the most important thing, getting the budget in order so that we can afford to have a proper, secure Defence Force with modern equipment. But, no, you over there are just out to wreck the budget. It is in your DNA. It is as simple as that. A Labor government means budget mess. As I said, it has happened all my life. And here is a case of you crying poor, crying crocodile tears for the Defence Force, when history proves you made an absolute mess of our Australian Defence Force. You should be ashamed of yourselves. (Time expired)

Kate Lundy (ACT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is hard to know where to start. Let me begin by refuting this rubbish from across the chamber about the budget crisis. Everything they have done, every bad decision they have made has been constructed around this falsehood that there is some kind of budget crisis. There is not. We have debt that we can manage, and we have debt that we can manage because we created a stimulus package to make sure jobs were not lost during the global financial crisis. What the Liberal Party and the coalition government cannot cope with is that we were enormously successful in achieving our goals and now we find ourselves in here being lectured to by people peddling misinformation about the state of the budget.

On the back of that, they have constructed a budget which cuts the heart out of so many things that Australians value, so many things that Australians understand form part of what it is to live in a society that is both civil and fair. One of the things that is civil and fair about Australian society is that we value the work of our public servants in general terms, and yet what they are getting from this government is a blanket cut to a basic wage increase that covers their cost-of-living expenses—the CPI. What we know from this government, and I would like to refer to a statement put out by my colleagues, is that the Prime Minister stated in parliament last week:

I can assure members opposite that no-one in the public sector will be getting a better deal than our Defence Force personnel …

What that tells me is this government are prepared to do a despicable thing, such as withholding budgeted wage increases for our ADF, so that they can justify holding back, unfairly, Commonwealth public servants' wage increases. There is a pattern of behaviour here, and it is appalling. I know, as its representative, that the ACT probably has the highest ratio of both Defence Force personnel and Commonwealth public servants. And I know that these people were both outraged and shattered, if they were in fact Liberal Party supporters, because they did not expect such appalling treatment from the party that they voted for.

In relation to the Defence Force wage increase, we heard today that Minister Johnston is going to pursue the activities in relation to his junior minister, who was apparently incredibly dismissive and rude to the petitioners who went to him to express their outrage regarding the Defence Force wage cut. I am pleased to hear the minister is going to pursue this—or at least he said he would—and provide some kind of retribution for the petitioners who basically came out of that meeting and said about the government, and I quoted this during question time, that it was 'arrogant, ill-informed and self-centred'. This is not language used very often by petitioners trying to lobby a government or advocate for a certain point of view. It is an extremely harsh criticism, but I think it is a fair criticism, of a government that has lost its way.

Today, we have seen a long list of things that the defence minister and the Abbott government need to address. The Defence Force pay issue is a critical one. I do not believe that concessions delivered in relation to the Christmas allowances go far enough in any way to resolve the complaint of the Defence Force. Everybody needs to have a living wage. As I have said in this place previously, to attack our Defence Force personnel in the way that they have with this unfair wage cut, despite a previously budgeted full wage increase, is one of the most disappointing and disturbing features of this government's decision-making to date.

Finally, I would like to draw people's attention to the fact that there is an obvious link, which has now been put into the public domain by the government, with the Commonwealth Public Service wage claims. I know the CPSU is locked into processes and disputes to pursue its members' interests, and I wish it all the best with that. We have suffered long and hard under a coalition government here in the ACT. I have strong memories— (Time expired)

Question agreed to.