Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Brandis. I refer to the Indonesian vice-president, who says, in response to allegations that the Abbott government paid people smugglers:

It is wrong for a person to bribe, let alone a state. Such an act is definitely incorrect—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Those of us on this side might care what the Indonesian vice-president has to say, but clearly the finance minister does not care.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Wong, you have the call.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well, the clock is now at 25.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, you can finish your question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will repeat the question. I hope the finance minister cares a little about what the Indonesian vice-president said. The vice-president said:

It is wrong for a person to bribe, let alone a state. Such an act is definitely incorrect in the context of bilateral relations …

What is the foreign minister's response?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much indeed, Senator Wong, for that question. Senator Wong, we do not comment on operational matters, as you know. In fact, Senator Wong, evidently you are not familiar with Mr Shorten's train wreck of a press conference about 45 minutes ago, when he was asked this very question. He was asked this very question whether the Labor Party, when it was in government, paid people smugglers. Do you know what Mr Shorten had to say? Mr Shorten said, 'Well, we don't comment on operational matters.' So, Senator Wong, I suggest that the next time you prepare for question time, you have a glance at what your leader has said in the hour before question time.

Of course, we know that the Labor Party paid money to people smugglers. We know $500 million worth of money went into the coffers of people smugglers, who charged a fee of approximately $10,000 per passage to 50,000 illegal entrants into Australia—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock! Order, Minister!

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I raise a point of order on direct relevance to the question that was asked, which was about the foreign minister's response rather than a history lesson about what they believe.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Moore, in relation to the point of order, Senator Brandis did answer the question first-up, indicating that he would not be commenting on operational matters. And as has been the tradition and convention in this chamber for decades, ministers can always enhance their answers once they have answered the substantive question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

So we know that people smugglers in Indonesia were enriched during the period of the Labor government to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, because we know there were approximately 50,000 illegal entrants to Australia, whose average fee, as we also know, was US$10,000. That is the extent to which people smugglers were enriched during the period of the Labor government. But because the Abbott government has stopped the boats, stopped the drownings, we have also stopped the people smugglers.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the Indonesian foreign minister, who says:

Actually, it's not difficult for Australia to answer my question from Saturday regarding the issue of payment, and not to distract on the issue …

That is a direct quote from the Indonesian foreign minister.

Senator Cormann interjecting—

I know the Minister for Finance may not think it is an important point. Has the Abbott government provided a response to the Indonesian foreign minister and, if so, what is it?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, Senator Wong, I am familiar with the remarks attributed to the Indonesian foreign minister. What I can tell you, Senator Wong, is that unlike when you were a member of the cabinet, unlike during the period of the Labor government, the Indonesian people smugglers have gone broke. They have gone broke because they have no business. And the reason they have no business is that they have no customers, because the Abbott government stopped the boats. Senator Wong, I know you are reluctant to acknowledge that fact. I know how reluctant you are to face the shame of having made a decision that resulted directly in the deaths of 1,100 people, most of them innocent women and children. I know how that sits with your humanitarianism, Senator Wong, but you will never escape the shame of that decision. You will never escape your record and you cannot escape the fact that the Abbott government stopped the boats. (Time expired)

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer to a spokesperson for Indonesia's security ministry, who says that the Australian foreign minister's call for Indonesia to enforce sovereignty over their borders was 'not an appropriate statement for her to make and she should withdraw'. How is the Prime Minister's Jakarta, not Geneva, foreign policy going?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am pleased to tell you, Senator Wong, that the relationship between Australia and Indonesia, notwithstanding that there are interruptions from time to time, most recently at the time of the executions of Chan and Sukumaran—

Senator Cameron interjecting—

something that you might choose to laugh about, Senator Cameron, but that we regard as a human tragedy.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. That was a false and, if I may say, malicious imputation. That was not what Senator Cameron was responding to, and the Acting Leader of the Government should withdraw it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If the Attorney-General deems it appropriate, it would assist if he would like to withdraw that remark in relation to Senator Cameron.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, if it assists you, I will. As I was saying, the relationship between Indonesia and Australia occasionally faces difficulties. That has been the case on the watch of both sides of politics, but the relationship is in extremely good shape notwithstanding. It is in much better shape, I might say, than it was during the period of the Labor government when, for example, as a result of a decision of Senator Ludwig—who now lingers there on the backbench—when he was minister for agriculture we banned the export of live cattle to Indonesia, interfering with the food chain of that nation. (Time expired)