Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Employment (Senator Abetz) and the Minister for Human Services (Senator Payne) to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.

I want to pay particular attention to Senator Abetz's disgraceful continuing covering for and protecting Michael Lawler. The Liberal Party hand-picked the vice-president of the Fair Work Commission without public scrutiny and they continue to protect him from public scrutiny and accountability. In his role at Fair Work, Mr Lawler is responsible for upholding the values of our legal system and society in relation to critical matters of industrial relations. But Mr Lawler's conduct over the last five years can only be described as extraordinary: taking extreme amounts of leave, nine out of the last 12 months, at the expense of the taxpayer; breaching judicial codes and practice standards; attracting formal investigations into his behaviour—and all while presiding over a sharply declining number of matters before the Fair Work Commission. Lawler has proven himself unfit for the office which he holds.

Mr Lawler is of course the partner of none other than the disgraced union fraudster Kathy Jackson. Senator Abetz has described Kathy Jackson as a courageous person who should be applauded. But watch Senator Abetz squirm away from that ringing endorsement now that Jackson has been exposed as having misappropriated $1.4 million from the Health Services Union and its members. Right by Ms Jackson's side throughout her plundering of union members' money has been Mr Lawler, a person charged with protecting the integrity of our industrial relations system.

Relentless work by Pamela Williams at the Australian newspaper has uncovered the extent to which Mr Lawler has benefited from Ms Jackson's crimes. That is right: while taking home nearly half a million dollars in taxpayer-funded salary, despite taking nine months of unexplained sick leave, Michael Lawler has benefited from the proceeds of crime. Recent proceedings against Jackson in the Federal Court uncovered damning evidence of stolen money being used to finance Jackson's luxury Melbourne home during 2008. Faced in court with this evidence, Jackson had no choice but to admit to paying off her mortgage with stolen HSU money. She admitted it in court. In mid-2012, Lawler and Jackson moved out of Jackson's luxury Melbourne home and moved to the New South Wales coast, where they purchased a $1.3 million home in Wombarra. In October 2013, when Jackson finalised the sale of her luxury Melbourne home, the same home that she had financed using stolen HSU money, the net profits of this sale were more than $620,000. She took the money and, in three separate transactions in October 2013, paid down the mortgage on her Wombarra home.

In October 2014, supposedly while on sick leave from the Fair Work Commission, Mr Lawler transferred 50 per cent of Ms Jackson's Wombarra home into his own name. He took advantage of the New South Wales property laws to avoid any money changing hands as well as to prevent any stamp duty from being paid on the transfer. But at that moment, in his greed, he received ownership of a property purchased with the proceeds of crime. The money trail leads straight from the HSU to Jackson's Melbourne mortgage, then on to financing the Wombarra mortgage, the home that Mr Lawler now includes as one of his own assets. Lawler is living off the proceeds of crime. He owns a house bought with money stolen from union members. So this government, Senator Abetz and Mr Turnbull should stop protecting Mr Lawler and work with the opposition to restore the integrity of the Fair Work Commission.

Zed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is great to be able to respond to Senator Conroy and the rant that we just heard. What is clear about the Labor Party and what was made clear again by that contribution from Senator Conroy is that they are not concerned about rorts, rackets and rip-offs; they are only concerned about rorts, rackets and rip-offs that involve someone who is no longer one of their own. We know, despite all the allegations against Kathy Jackson, that she used to be one of their best mates. She was one of Bill Shorten's best mates. She was one of Senator Conroy's best mates. She was embedded in their factional system in the Victorian ALP. The only time they started to care about her activities was when she started blowing the whistle on other people's dodgy activities within the union movement.

So that is what we are talking about here. Did the ALP care about Michael Williamson's rorts, the president of the ALP? No, they did not care about the rorts. And what about Craig Thomson? Did you know about Craig Thomson? Yes, you knew about Craig Thomson. And what did you do when you found out about Craig Thomson? You put him up for preselection, he got preselected and then you defended him. You used ALP money to defend him. Perhaps Senator Dastyari could get up in this debate and tell us why he believed he should authorise hundreds of thousands of dollars of ALP money to defend Craig Thomson's rip-offs and rorts. They have had Michael Williamson and they have had Craig Thomson. We have seen the long line in the CFMEU.

That takes me to the other protection racket: the CFMEU and its relationship with the Australian Labor Party.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What's that got to do with Kathy Jackson?

Zed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It has got to do with what you defend.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy Speaker, on relevance: the CFMEU has got nothing whatsoever to do with Michael Lawler or Kathy Jackson. So I ask you to bring the Senator Back to the motion.

Zed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, on the point of order: Senator Conroy had a wide-ranging rant on corruption, and I am talking about corruption and what the ALP defends.

Gavin Marshall (Victoria, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Seselja, I understand the argument you are mounting and I think you are in order.

Zed Seselja (ACT, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, thank you for your ruling. So this is what the ALP protects. Senator Abetz made it very clear that there is a process to follow here; if someone has done the wrong thing, there will be a process. If there is police action with any of these individuals, they will be pursued to the full force of the law—because it is without fear or favour. But what I will highlight is the fact that the ALP sees things somewhat differently. When it is one of their own—as long as they have not 'ratted them out'—they will defend the most outrageous behaviour. We have seen it with the royal commission. They defend the CFMEU because the CFMEU pays their bills.

And if we get the Greens to stand up, they can tell us why they continue to defend the CFMEU. It is interesting in terms of the Greens. When they receive money from the CFMEU, the Greens said its okay because they received the money not from the forestry part but from the construction part. That was the Greens line! They said they didn't receive it from the people representing those 'evil forest workers', they received it from the good part of the CFMEU, the construction part. That is the corrupt part that we have seen on show.

Senator Whish-Wilson interjecting—

That is where you get your money from, Senator Whish-Wilson. That is where the Greens have been getting their money. So when the Greens get up and speak about this issue they can say why they believe that the construction part of the CFMEU is the decent part of the CFMEU. They get those large cheques—and who knows where that money comes from. We have seen the stuff about extortion on business sites right here in the ACT and right around the country. Decent, hardworking small business owners have had their money extorted. In some cases that money goes into CFMEU coffers and then they split it up among their supporters in the parliament—between the Labor Party and the Greens.

In conclusion, the Labor Party are into protection rackets but what they are not into is in anyway having a fair and balanced approach. They will defend their own to the death regardless of how outrageous they are. (Time expired)

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Today I asked the Minister for Human Services, Senator Payne, three very detailed questions in relation to the theft of Medicare clients' personal information, including their bank account details. I asked the minister: when did she become aware of the theft? Not only could the minister not tell me about when the theft took place; she could not tell me how many Medicare clients were involved and she could not tell the Senate the amount of money that has been defrauded from the Commonwealth. Even more concerning, when I asked what steps the minister had taken to deal with this issue we get told it is in the hands of the police. Well, it might be in the hands of the police but the minister has a responsibility to ensure Medicare information is kept confidential and is not used by fraudsters to defraud the Commonwealth. That is what the minister failed to do. This minister knew there was a problem just under a month ago. After a constituent had raised with me that there could be a problem, I wrote to the minister and asked her to advise me about the issues facing DHS in relation to the stealing of Medicare clients' confidential information. I received nothing back from this minister.

The problem is that the minister is too busy trying to rip the wages and conditions off Commonwealth public servants in her department at the behest of Senator Abetz. She is too busy attacking the wages and conditions of hardworking public servants. We know that is a precursor to ripping the wages and conditions off workers in the rest of the country. This was Senator Abetz's little experiment within the public service to see how it could be replicated in the rest of the community.

In the meantime, clients of DHS are having their identity ripped off and the Commonwealth is being defrauded. I think the priority should be to make sure that people using Medicare—people using DHS systems—are not ripped off. But no, the minister was too busy to do that. The minister was too busy attacking workers, wages and conditions to deal with what I think is one of the most outrageous problems we have in the government at the moment, and that is the use of Centrepay by companies like Radio Rentals to rip off some of the poorest people in our community. Radio Rentals today have now had to pay back $1 million to people on welfare benefits. Yet when I raised this issue with the minister, what does she do? She dodges it.. She said, 'There will be an inquiry.' To fix this Centrepay issue simply requires a signature from the minister. Fix it minister! Before you end up going somewhere else in the reshuffle, what you could do is one good thing in your time in this portfolio, and that is to sign off on excluding the rip-off merchants from consumer leases that attack welfare recipients and others in the community.

The industrial chaos takes away from what should be one of the best government departments in the country. The industrial chaos is caused by the ideology and extremism of this government. Call wait times are soaring because this government cannot get its act together. They are too busy attacking working people. They are too busy attacking each other. They are too busy knifing their own Prime Minister.

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not normally do this, but I at least want to give some acclaim to Senator Cameron because he is at least talking about a proper policy issue. While I think he is drawing a bit of a longbow with some of the arguments about why there might be some issues with Medicare records and those aspects, no doubt it is an important issue, and no doubt the minister—and I am sure the government—will investigate those matters extensively.

What we have had in question time here today with all the other questions on issues from Labor senators is confirmation that on that side of the chamber they are more focused on the jobs here in Canberra than the jobs out in the wider community. They are more focused on wanting to argue about who has what job, and who is doing what down here, and not about what we can do to create jobs in this country. Because we have not had one question in the last fortnight that I can remember from the other side about, say, the Chinese free trade agreement, which is actually going to create jobs in this country and which is going to create economic opportunity in Australia—create well-paying jobs and higher exports. There have been no questions about that. All they want a focus on is politics here in Canberra and I think that is what people are sick of—it is what people are really sick of.

This week has been a tumultuous week for the country. For what it is worth, from this corner of the chamber, we have been focused on delivering jobs and benefits to the people we represent. We have been focused on getting outcomes for regional Australia, and I believe we have got those outcomes for regional Australia because we are going to go into a new relationship with a new Prime Minister, focused very firmly on getting a good deal for small business, getting a good deal for families and getting a good deal for jobs in regional areas. All those things are covered off in the new coalition agreement we have with the new Prime Minister. I am looking forward to that agreement coming to fruition, and to delivering those gains to regional Australians and to people who live where you can see the Milky Way.

I take some solace in the new-found interest that the Labor Party have in the operations of the National Party, because usually they do not take much interest in the areas of this country where you can see the Milky Way at night. They do not particularly care about those areas, because they are focused on the capital cities. But at least they are now taking notice, and I am sure we will deliver for those people in the coming years.

In the time left remaining I want to correct, or put into context, some of the issues that Senator Conroy, in particular, raised. Senator Conroy has an obsession and a fascination with one particular individual who has had claims made about his misbehaviour. The Leader of the Government in the Senate summed it up well—that these matters should be investigated. Indeed, it is exactly the same position that the Labor Party took when they were in government—exactly the same position.

I remember that there was a former member of the other place who had done some things in the Health Services Union that were not all that seemly. There were questions about that behaviour and that was subject to a very long, extensive investigation by the Fair Work Commission. I remember the now Leader of the Opposition, Mr Shorten, being responsible for the Fair Work Commission at the time and being responsible for those investigations. He was asked about that once by the media. When he was asked about Mr Thomson's behaviour he said, 'What I do know, as Minister for Workplace Relations is that there has been a Fair Work Australia investigation into parts of the Health Services Union. I do know that that investigation is taking far too long.'

This is exactly the same approach that the government is taking for Michael Lawler, but now Labor want a different standard applied from what they applied when they were in government. I would like to go one step further and say that if Senator Conroy is so concerned about corruption and so concerned about behaviour which is not up to the standard that we would expect in this country then he may want to have a read of The Courier-Mail today, where there are reported revelations from the royal commission into trade unions yesterday of a former union boss receiving a home paid for by a construction union. It seems to be a seedy deal. If Mr Conroy thinks that people should be removed before an investigation, I am sure he would have a bit more influence over Dave Hanna than over Michael Lawler, which his questions focussed on today.

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to take note of answers to questions put by Labor to Senator Abetz. Despite not answering the questions today, Australians do have a right to understand who Mr Turnbull is. He is the new Prime Minister. They need to be clear about what he stands for and what he does not stand for, but there are so many conflicting views around Mr Turnbull. Mr Andrews has described Mr Turnbull as someone whose focus seems to have been almost entirely on himself. He said that publicly and went on to say that he believes he has just been undermining the government. These are comments which are out there. He went on to say that he is a selfish man and is interested in self-promotion. The former Prime Minister described Mr Turnbull's actions as white-anting his way to the top job. Yesterday, there were the incredible outbursts by one of their icon Liberal leaders, Mr Jeff Kennett, on every airway, on social media and in newsprint. He just would not shut up. His condemnation of Mr Turnbull was everywhere. Mr Kennett repeated the sorts of comments we have heard from Mr Andrews and others. He described Mr Turnbull as an individual who always puts self-interest first. He was all over the media yesterday and went on to say:

This has nothing to do with the governing of Australia. This is the promotion of Malcolm Turnbull. He couldn’t work with the team.

Mr Kennett went on and on. He said:

I will never, ever, ever vote for Malcolm Turnbull ... Malcolm Turnbull has never put a team together, he cannot work with a team.

He went on to say:

This is a disgrace. Malcolm Turnbull should resign from parliament. He should have done it a long time ago.

Of course, the shock jocks, particularly in New South Wales and Victoria, were describing Mr Turnbull as elitist and a snob.

To be fair to Mr Turnbull, I thought I would look at some of the comments he has made about himself, and he has made quite a lot of comments about himself. This one struck me as particularly relevant. Mr Turnbull said:

I believe politicians should aim to be accurate and truthful ...You can be truthful and inaccurate but what you shouldn't be doing at any time is saying things that are untrue or making commitments that you have no intention of honouring.

We have seen the backflipping of Mr Turnbull already this week. He is a strong supporter of marriage equality—someone who wants to see a change to the Marriage Act—but what is he going to do? He is going to continue with a plebiscite. Again, this is somebody who made a commitment. He said that you do not make commitments you are not going to keep. He made those commitments around marriage equality and now he has made a whole new set of commitments. That might be fine, but they are entirely opposing commitments.

On climate change, he has made contrary commitments—absolutely. At one stage he criticised the Direct Action policy and yet, now that he is Prime Minister, he is signing up to it. He obviously does not stand by the comment he made about himself: someone who does not make commitments that he has no intention of honouring. It is day 3 of his prime ministership and he has already backflipped on a whole range of views that he held apparently quite near and dear. As we all know, Mr Turnbull has led the Liberals before and they rolled him on climate change. He was defeated as party leader back in 2009 as the party conservatives rose up to defeat him. We know there are 44 people who did not vote for Mr Turnbull. Certainly, Senator Bernardi has been very free and open with his comments and he has taken the Liberal badging off his Twitter account. I am not sure what that means.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That was months ago.

Sue Lines (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He said he did it months ago. Perhaps he has been warming up to this. Perhaps he knew before all of us that there was going to be a leadership challenge. Seriously, it is time for Mr Turnbull to say, 'I am this leader and I am not that leader. I am a person who stands by my commitments,' because right now he is not.

Question agreed to.