Joe Bullock (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. Does the minister support cuts to weekend penalty rates?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government has a very clear position in relation to penalty rates. Penalty rates are to be determined by the Fair Work Commission. That is it. The government does not have a role in determining penalty rates. Anybody who says otherwise is misleading the Australian people or misleading the Senate. But I can tell you who does like to cut penalty rates, and that is, of course, the current Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten. There is only one person in Australia who has a record with an evidentiary basis you are unable to dispute who did not just cut but slashed penalty rates in a deal that he did when he was the National Secretary of the Australian Workers' Union—the same union and the same union colleagues that entered into a new agreement with Cleanevent. It removed—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to relevance. Does the minister support cuts to weekend penalty rates?

A government senator interjecting—

Then she should sit down.

Senator Williams interjecting—

Tell us your views on water, Wacka! Come on!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Wong—you have made your point of order.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Finance) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the same point of order, Minister Cash could not have been more directly relevant to the question. The reason that Senator Wong got up is that Senator Cash was being too relevant to the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, further to the point of order, I simply make this point: just because something was once relevant does not make something subsequently irrelevant relevant.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The minister, in answering her question, indicated the government's position and that is what a minister is to do, and the minister indicated the government's position in relation to penalty rates. All ministers are allowed to enhance their answers provided they stay relevant to the topic and Senator Cash has been relevant.

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you. Again, I reiterate the government's position in relation to penalty rates. It has been clearly and consistently stated by government members that penalty rates are a matter for the Fair Work Commission to determine, but as I was saying, if you want to look to someone who is currently a member of parliament, who puts himself out as being the future leader of this country, who has a record in relation to what I personally would call 'slashing' penalty rates—I would not call it 'cutting'—that is, of course, the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Bill Shorten, who entered into a deal which removed 'all penalty rates for low-paid cleaners with no compensation'.

Joe Bullock (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Turning to another leader, does the minister agree with the Prime Minister that the only reason penalty rates are different on weekends is due to 'historical factors'?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think there is a body of evidence in Australia that would suggest that penalty rates were put in place some time ago when the work situation in Australia was fundamentally different. In fact, the Productivity Commission itself has recommended that the Fair Work Commission take into consideration a wider body of evidence when it is setting penalty rates. What we will never resile from on this side of the chamber is having a good debate, allowing the Australian people to put their views. If that means there are some small business people out there who cannot open on a Sunday because their wages bill exceeds their takings bill, maybe we should listen to them. If there are people out there who cannot open on a Sunday but who say, 'I could open on a Sunday if …', maybe we should listen, but it does not change our position. Penalty rates are set by the Fair Work Commission. (Time expired)

Joe Bullock (WA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the minister agree with Green Senator Whish-Wilson who says that penalty rates are just a 'white Anglo-Saxon cultural thing we have inherited'?

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, what I say is this.

Honourable members interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, on both sides!

Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was surprised by the comment obviously. I am only hoping his next comment will be that he is standing up for free trade in supporting the China free trade agreement because that is something we on this side could agree with. The bigger picture is this. On this side of the chamber we will never resile from debate because debate is healthy, unlike those on the other side who have one opinion. The bad news for Australians is that it is not even the opposition's opinion because the opinion they espouse in this place is given to them normally by the union they represent. Certainly, the CFMEU plays a very big part in this chamber.