Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Communications, Senator Fifield. The minister said, in this place on 14 October, that under Labor's plan:

… the NBN was not going to be completed until 2028 and Labor's cost was going to be $20 billion to $30 billion more.

Is the minister aware that the nbn CEO, Bill Morrow, contradicted this statement when testifying to a Senate committee, stating that the analysis included in the nbn's corporate plan does not attempt to cost Labor's NBN policy but instead costs a hypothetical restart of an all-fibre build? Was the minister mistaken or did he deliberately mislead the Senate regarding the nbn's hypothetical cost analysis?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There was a little bit of a hypothetical nature to that question, but I will let the question stand.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Did you mislead or not?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, there were more parts to the question than that. Minister.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You were sitting next to him when he said it!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Conroy!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and I thank Senator O'Neill for her question. Senator Conroy, I not only recall I was sitting next to Mr Morrow; I also recall that your lively presence was in attendance at the estimates committee. The questions at Senate estimates related to a counterfactual scenario which nbn have prepared because it was the view of shareholder ministers—and I think one that nbn shared, because they took up the suggestion—that it was prudent and good management to periodically look at what a counterfactual might be to demonstrate the merits of the multitechnology mix approach that nbn was pursuing, and that is what nbn did. The reason why an all-fibre—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Order! Senator Conroy, your leader is on her feet.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, this is all very interesting, but the point of order I raise is relevance. The minister was asked about an answer he gave in this chamber which we assert is inconsistent with an answer subsequently given by the CEO of nbn. The question was asked: was the minister mistaken or did he deliberately mislead the Senate? It is a very important question and he should respond to it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator O'Neill also asked the question: was the minister aware of the statement? So the minister is in order in the first element of the question.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I was saying, it is good practice, which nbn is following, to look at a counterfactual. Obviously, a counterfactual has to be counter to what is actually being done. That is the essence of a counterfactual. What nbn co is looking at is—I think it is no secret—a proposition which has been abroad not just in the parliament but in the community, where there are some who have the view that an all-fibre rollout is what nbn should do. (Time expired)

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. On 15 October, nbn published a blog post that misrepresented its corporate plan and claimed it would deliver broadband 'up to eight years sooner and for $20 billion less than if it had continued down the path of a predominantly all-fibre network'. This misleading blog post has now been taken down. Minister, did you or your office have any contact with nbn regarding this misleading blog post or its removal? And it would be wonderful to get an answer to our last question as well, Senator. (Time expired)

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think Mr Morrow covered off on the nbn blog post, but obviously my office does not have a role in the posts on blogs that nbn makes.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

But what about their withdrawal?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If my recollection is correct, it was actually the opposition who called for the withdrawal of the blog post. So I cannot really add anything to that.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I raise a point of order on relevance. The question was: did you or your office have any contact with nbn? It is a very simple question; we have not received an answer yet.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I believe the minister did answer that portion of the question.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Order! I just said I believe he did. I stand to be corrected, but I thought he said that it was not his office's responsibility. That was my understanding of that part of the answer. In any event, I will still call the minister and remind him of the question.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is ironic—those opposite talking about non-responsiveness. We all know about non-responsiveness in Mr Shorten in certain other forums.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Pause the clock.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are two points of order, Mr President. One is on direct relevance to the question. Again the minister just went on his own track, and that track, I believe, reflected on someone in the other place, which is the second point of order.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask the minister, if he made any adverse reflection upon a member of the other place, to withdraw that aspect of his remarks. Secondly, the minister had barely resumed speaking again when a point of order was taken, so I invite the minister to continue answering the question.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I do not know if it is just because it is a Monday, but people are very excitable on the other side of the chamber today. But, as I said, my office does not play a role in the posting of NBN blogs.

Senator Kim Carr interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Just a moment, Senator Carr; I think I can manage this. Senator Fifield, the first point: I did ask you, if you did say anything inappropriate, that—

An honourable senator interjecting—

Fine; I will review Hansard in relation to that matter.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are joking!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Just one moment.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are absolutely joking!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have two senators on their feet; I have not called either.

Government senators interjecting—

Order on my right! Senator Conroy, on a point of order?

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not appropriate to invite him, 'if he might have'; he made a clear reflection on a member in another chamber—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I am sorry, Senator Conroy—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and Senator Brandis then turned and instructed him not to withdraw anything, and that is what happened. So there has been a clear reflection. It is not a question of inviting him, 'if he might have'; you need to make a ruling whether he made a reflection. You heard it. You know exactly what happened. And you should call on him to withdraw his reflection.

Government senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my right. I will review the Hansard, and I will review the audiovisual of this, and if there has been any inappropriate comment, I will be asking the minister to withdraw. I need time to assess that as well. Especially when a lot of senators interject when ministers are giving answers, it is difficult to hear every single word in the context in which it is given.

Senator Conroy interjecting—

That is sheer speculation, Senator Conroy.

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We heard him!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, I will have a look at that as well. The minister did have 16 seconds remaining. The clock was running. Minister, have you concluded your answer?

Senator Fifield interjecting—

The minister has completed his answer.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Would all senators cease interjecting.

Government senators interjecting—

Order on my right!

Deborah O'Neill (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. In October, conservative commentator Andrew Bolt described the now Prime Minister's record on the NBN as 'delivering less than he promised for twice the price.' Given that even the government's closest supporters are condemning its appalling management of the NBN, isn't it time this minister stopped hiding behind dodgy numbers and admitted he got it wrong?

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I think there is only a very small number of people who are on that side of the chamber in this place and on that side of the chamber in the other place who still contend and persist with the fantasy that Senator Conroy did anything approaching a halfway decent job with the NBN. The entire nation knows it is not true.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The entire nation laughs whenever Senator Conroy gets to his feet.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Minister.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to direct relevance to the question: there was no attempt by the minister to refer to the question that was put. Rather he went to a generalisation about Senator Conroy and this side of the chamber.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will remind the minister of the question and advise he has 37 seconds in which to answer.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The NBN was going nowhere very fast under Senator Conroy. As we all know, there was not the work done for the planning of the NBN that I acknowledge those opposite did in the planning of the NDIS. There was not a 1,000-page Productivity Commission report laying out a blueprint. There was a coaster with scribble on the back. That was the comprehensive plan that Senator Conroy left the nation, and, in the rollout under him, it showed. (Time expired)

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.