Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Education and Training. I refer to the Australian Childcare Alliance, who said about short-session billing:

If we were to say to our great educators, 'Here, look, the parents just aren't bringing their kids next Tuesday. We're not going to pay you for next Tuesday,' they will move out of the sector.

Minister, has the government done any analysis of the impact on the workforce of moving to short-session billing?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I think I explained to Senator Dastyari yesterday, the government has no proposal to require any childcare or early learning providers to move to short-session billing or to move to hourly rates of pay. That is entirely a commercial business decision for those providers, and it is up to those providers to then of course make decisions—

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. The question specifically asked whether the government has done any analysis of the impact on the workforce of moving to short-session billing.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will let the minister continue his answer. He has only just commenced his answer. He has one minute and 37 seconds.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thanks, Mr President. To assume the government would have done analysis would be to perhaps assume that the government was going to require somebody to do something. The government is not requiring anybody to do something. Therefore, I am very happy—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order on my left.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If I can get some quiet from those opposite, who seem to wish to continually rephrase their questions through interjections across the chamber—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Sorry; naughty Penny!

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Indeed, Senator Wong. I am very happy to give very clear answers to Senator Dastyari. Implicit in Senator Dastyari's questions is the concept that the government might be requiring short-session billing. The government will not be requiring short-session billing or arrangements. That is a commercial business decision that childcare providers can undertake if they believe that will provide a better service for families. Given the government is not requiring anybody to undertake these types of things, the government has not done such analysis, because there is no reason for the government to undertake analysis for something that we are not proposing or requiring people to do. That is an option that people may choose to do if they believe it will provide enhanced opportunities to families. Ultimately, of course, what I hope providers do is provide the best possible services of early learning and child care to families under the flexible arrangements that this government is providing for them to do so.

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, Australia's largest not-for-profit early learning provider, Goodstart, has warned that short-session billing would lead to:

… either the increased rate or the compression of availability or both. Either way, those don't work, particularly for working families.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Dastyari does not appear to be very good at listening, because I have made it very clear the government is not proposing that anybody be required to offer short-session services. Providers can have their own opinions and they will, of course, make their decisions based upon their opinions. I would, in relation to workforce questions, make the point to Senator Dastyari that, at present, childcare providers and early learning service operators who operate for 10 and 12 hours a day—

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You mean long day care providers?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Actually, Senator Collins, they quite like to be called early education or early learning providers. Long day care is another term. They like education and learning to be put into the title as well. They, of course, do provide and do employ people across different shifts throughout the day. They do not employ employees who sit there for 12-hour sessions throughout the day, so shift work is already part of the operation of those businesses— (Time expired)

Sam Dastyari (NSW, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question . The minister brings up the important issue of the workforce. Minister, early childhood educators are some of the hardest working but lowest paid workers in Australia. How can the minister guarantee that short-session billing will not disadvantage any early childhood educator, including by forcing them to work casual jobs with split shifts and fewer hours? How can the minister guarantee that short-session billing will not disadvantage any early childhood educator, including by forcing them to these new types of work arrangements?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Clearly the Labor Party tactic today is one of trying to scare people. Yesterday, they were trying to scare parents about the impact any such changes of the government might gave. Today, they are out to scare the workforce. Let us be very clear: our government's proposals are to put more than $3 billion extra into child care to make it more affordable for Australian families. Our proposals are to lift regulatory impacts on childcare providers to make it more flexible for them to deliver the types of services that Australian families need. This is a generous—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. I know the minister wants to talk about the package. The question was not about his package. The question is about—

Honourable senators interjecting—

Let's move on! Can the minister guarantee that short-session billing will not disadvantage any early childhood educator, including by forcing them to work casual jobs with split shifts and fewer hours? I ask the minister to return to the question. It is not a broad question about funding.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Wong. I will remind the minister of the question.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I have made clear repeatedly to Senator Dastyari, the government has no proposals to mandate short-session billing. That is an option for commercial providers. The workforce in the childcare sector already includes casual employees, includes part-time employees and includes full-time employees. Those, of course, are again commercial business decisions undertaken by the operators and will continue to be so in the future.