Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. I refer to the minister's statement to the Senate:

Mr Brough would not have been appointed as the Special Minister of State unless the Prime Minister, at the time he made that appointment, had confidence in him.

At the time he made the appointment, was the Prime Minister aware of Mr Brough's confession on 60 Minutes that he asked Mr Ashby to procure the Speaker's diary for him?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order in relation to the question. I refer you to standing order 196, which talks about tedious repetition. In support of my point of order, can I indicate there is no doubt that these questions are repetitive in this chamber and in the other chamber and there can be no argument about them being tedious.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On my left, please. There is no point of order, Senator Macdonald. That standing order relates mainly to rules of debate.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am very wary, Senator Wong, and particularly chastened by the experience of yesterday, in taking at face value when you quote people. Let me remind you, Senator Wong, what you said yesterday. You asked me two questions on this matter yesterday, Senator Wong, and in the second of them you said this—and I am reading from the Hansard

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order as to relevance. It is quite clear from what the minister has said so far that he has no attention of addressing the question he has been asked. He has indicated quite clearly he is going to talk about something completely different. I ask you to ask him to return to the question and to remain relevant to the question he was asked, not to the one he wanted to be asked.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will remind the Attorney-General of the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will come to the question, I assure you, Mr President. This is what Senator Wong said in the second question—and I am quoting from the Hansard:

I refer to the Attorney-General's previous answer to my question in which he claimed not to recall any conversation with the Minister for Justice in relation to the execution of a search warrant on Mr Brough—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. He is clearly flouting your request to return to the question. He has continued to read out the Hansard from yesterday, which has no relevance to today's question. He is off on his own frolic and I ask you to bring him back to the question.

The PRESIDENT: The Attorney-General did indicate in response to the last point of order that he will address the question. I will take the Attorney-General at his word.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Senator Wong went on to say:

Is the minister aware that, a short while ago—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Order, Attorney-General!

Kim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. You have sought from this minister that he answer the question. He has treated your advice to him with contempt. He has continued with a prepared answer for a question which has not been asked. He is seeking to deal with a problem he got himself into yesterday.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Canavan, on the same point of order?

Matthew Canavan (Queensland, Liberal National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on the same point of order. You ruled and gave the Leader of the Government in the Senate an opportunity to proceed with his answer. The opposition gave him seven seconds to do that. I think that point of order was in defiance of your ruling and the Leader of the Government in the Senate should be allowed to come to the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to the point of order, with the first point of order I reminded the minister of the question and during his response he indicated he would get to the substance of the question. In fairness to the minister, the matter was about a referral to his previous answer of yesterday.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That was not the—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! I will not tolerate an argument, Senator Wong. I am not taking any further points of order on this matter. The Attorney-General has the call.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are not going to call me?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, I am not going to argue with you.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What standing order are you—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, I am not going to argue with you either. I have given the Attorney-General the opportunity. I have reminded him of the question. There have been two successive points of order raised. The Attorney-General has indicated he will come to the question. He is also referring in his answer to matters that Senator Wong herself referred to in her actual question. Attorney-General, you have the call.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Is the—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I seek clarification.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You don't want to hear this, do you?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Conroy, I am not going to tolerate points of order that are not relevant.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not seeking a point of order; I am seeking clarification.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of clarification, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You are refusing to take points of order. Could you quote me the standing order which you have decided you want to assert exists to refuse to take a point of order from the Leader of the Opposition in this chamber? I would like you to specify the standing order on which you are making your ruling.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will not take any further points of order, Senator Bernardi, not on this matter. I can determine the ruling of a point of order at any place through that point of order.

Senator Conroy interjecting—

Listen, Senator Conroy!

Senator Cormann interjecting—

And you, too, Senator Cormann! I do not have to take a number of points of order on the same issue. I can make a determination on a point of order at any particular time. I have made my determination on this point of order. If all the points of order relate to the same issue, I am not taking any further points of order. I am satisfied that the Attorney-General is in order.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, this is going to get tedious. Is this a new matter, Senator Wong?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I asked to bring to your attention, on the basis of your ruling, as I understood you to indicate, that we quoted from an answer given yesterday. That is erroneous. I would ask you to reconsider your ruling. Given from what you have said, Mr President, it appears it is predicated on an erroneous fact.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have made my ruling on this matter.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Tourism and International Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Unless this is a fresh point of order, Senator Colbeck, I do not intend to take any further points of order on this matter.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Tourism and International Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I do not want to test your patience on this—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Well you are.

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Tourism and International Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and I know that I clearly am.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Is this the same matter, Senator Colbeck?

Richard Colbeck (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Tourism and International Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is the same matter.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not taking any further points of order on this same matter. Attorney-General, you have the call.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. Senator Wong said:

Is the minister aware that, a short while ago, the Justice Minister informed the other place that he told the Attorney-General the warrant would be executed?

Both of those propositions were false, something I pointed out to the chamber yesterday but without the benefit of the Hansard. Now with the benefit of the Hansard, it is perfectly apparent that those propositions were false. The question that was asked of me by Senator Wong was:

Did the Minister for Justice inform the his senior minister, the Attorney-General, of the AFP's—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Before you raise a point of order, Senator Wong, Attorney-General, I did give you the opportunity to come to the question. You did inform me that you would come to the question. You are now three-quarters of the way through the question. I now ask you to come to the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

… of the AFP's intention to execute a search warrant to the home of Mr Brough?

The point I would make is that Senator Wong yesterday misquoted my answer. If it had time, I would point out—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, Attorney-General. Pause the clock.

Jacinta Collins (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Cabinet Secretary) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

If he wants to make a statement, he should do so!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Collins!

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. This is in relation to your advice to the Attorney-General. He is contemptuously ignoring your instructions to come to the point and he is deliberately, deliberately, challenging your authority, and you should deal with it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron. I believe the Attorney-General, in the last few seconds, was coming to the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, in the question she has now asked me today, has quoted some words from Mr Brough during a 60 Minutes interview. I have seen that interview, and those are not the words Mr Brough used. So, just as she misquoted me yesterday, just as she misquoted Mr Keenan yesterday, she—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Order, Attorney-General.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. You invited, cajoled and suggested he might come to the question. He is now quoting a different question and, again, the content which he is referring to was not asked. He has actually, again, refused to come to the question, and has defied your rulings, again. I ask you, with two seconds left, if he can possibly come close to referring to the question he was actually asked, not the one he pre-prepared to answer.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order, I know I have only two seconds remaining for my answer, so let me make the point in speaking to the point of order.

Honourable senators interjecting—

The point of order is a relevance point of order. The answer was relevant to the question because the question attributed certain words to Mr Brough during a 60 Minutes interview that was broadcast some time ago. Just as Senator Wong, yesterday, misquoted me and misquoted Mr Keenan, in her question she has misquoted what Mr Brough said in the 60 Minutes interview.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Attorney-General. The Attorney-General is correct in relation to the question and the reference to Mr Brough and the 60 Minutes interview and the confession made in that interview. Attorney-General, you have two seconds left to continue answering.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have finished.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the minister did not answer this, I am asking him about the Prime Minister's state of awareness of Mr Brough's confessed actions. Mr Brough has stated publicly that he asked Mr Ashby to procure the Speaker's diary for him. I am asking if the Prime Minister was aware of that at the time he appointed him to the ministry.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

First of all, the question is based on a false premise, because I asked Senator Wong across the table whether she was actually reading Mr Brough's actual words. She was not reading Mr Brough's actual words. Mr Brough did not say what Senator Wong has attributed to him—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The entire country has seen it on national television!

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

any more than I said what Senator Wong attributed to me yesterday, any more than Mr Keenan said what Senator Wong attributed to him yesterday.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Did you see Laurie Oakes?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Brough gave an interview to the 60 Minutes program—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock!

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. Again, this Attorney-General is refusing to answer questions in this place, and he is denying the fact that the whole country knows. It is about time he actually got back to some reality on this and answered the questions. He continues to defy you, and you should stop it.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Cameron. There is no point of order. The Attorney-General, at the very commencement of his answer, indicated that he rejected the premise of the question.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was on national television!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Irrespective of whether it was on national television or not, the Attorney-General has rejected the premise of the question. I am not here to adjudicate content.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I did not want to interrupt the minister, not that I could hear him. My point of order is that I am sitting less than two metres from the Attorney and I cannot hear him because of the screeching of the Leader of the Opposition, Senator Wong. I would ask that you ask her to stop screeching and yelling so the rest of us can hear the answer.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on the same point of order. I must say that you are sitting there and you know that what hast just been put to you is an absolute untruth. You should not allow senators on the other side, especially Senator Macdonald, to make unsubstantiated allegations against the Leader of the Opposition with impunity. It is just unacceptable.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In relation to both of those points of order, I remind all senators, as I did yesterday, that interjections are disorderly and it is very difficult for me in particular to listen to both the question and the answer with the level of noise in the chamber. Attorney-General, you have 24 seconds remaining.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is not in dispute—

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He confessed!

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

that Mr Brough gave an interview to the 60 Minutes program in which he addressed the Ashby matter. That is not controversial. But what Senator Wong has done—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Order, Senator Brandis.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point or order on direct relevance. I asked about what the Prime Minister knew. If this question time is going to have any credibility, he should be asked to respond to the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Again, I say that the Attorney-General indicated at the commencement of his answer that he rejected the premise of the question.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What Senator Wong has done is attributed words to Mr Brough that are not the words he used.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He confessed!

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And because what is said is very consequential, the only fair way to ask that question is to quote Mr Brough's words, which said— (Time expired)

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Laurie Oakes has a spot for you on the show tonight. It will be a classic!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, Senator Conroy.

Stephen Conroy (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Better than metadata, George.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Does the Prime Minister maintain confidence in the Special Minister of State?

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.