Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Assistant Minister for Vocational Education and Skills, Senator Birmingham. Can the minister advise the Senate who determined the representation on the Apprenticeships Reform Advisory Group, and why the Australian Industry Group and the ACTU were not consulted or included in the advisory group?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will seek some further clarification for Senator Cameron, but my recollection is that that advisory group was formed quite some time ago and that I determined who would be on the advisory group. I am happy to look at who I may or may not have consulted, if that information is available for the senator.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, why was funding from the $9.2 million announced by the Assistant Minister for Vocational Education and Skills made available to Master Builders Australia, the National Electrical and Communications Association and the North East Vocational College outside of the competitive tendering process?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have a belief that the downturn in apprenticeship numbers that has been underway since the Labor government made changes to apprenticeship incentive arrangements way back in the final year or two of their term in office is a concern, and this government's view was that we needed to start looking at what things we can do and what action we can take to try to recover numbers in apprenticeships. We have budgeted some funding and are funding five pilots to the tune of $9.2 million under the apprenticeship training alternative delivery model. Those pilots—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. Senator Cameron, a point of order.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

This is on relevance. The exact question I asked, and the only question I asked, was: why were these funded outside of the competitive tendering process? That is the nub of the question.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will remind the minister of the question.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The pilots that are being funded under this program were identified during the consultation process that the apprenticeship advisory group undertook. They were identified as being pilots that are of value, that are innovative in the delivery model and that we hope will help to inform better pathways in the future to strengthen numbers in Australian apprenticeships.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Can the minister guarantee that apprentices will not have their wages reduced or their skills base narrowed as a result of these pilot projects? Can the minister also guarantee that apprentices will continue to have training that facilitates portability of skills and national skills recognition?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I can happily give guarantees that pilots will, of course, have to operate within existing industrial relations arrangements. Where they are delivering qualifications, they will have to deliver qualifications that deliver upon the competencies within those qualifications. I am very happy to give Senator Cameron the assurances he might seek in relation to the fact that industrial arrangements will be met and skills will be against the competencies that are required for qualifications that are delivered as part of apprenticeship frameworks.

Importantly, this program is about the Turnbull government recognising that we need people trained in vocational education and apprenticeships, that the reality is that we have had a downturn in numbers, which started under the previous Labor government, and that we want to trial different methodologies to see whether we can get an apprenticeship model that encourages both employers and young people to increase their participation in apprenticeships into the future.