Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Education and Training. I refer to Assistant Minister Karen Andrews, who says that former Senator Day's student builder pilot 'redefines participants as students rather than apprentices'. Can the minister confirm that participants in the $1.84 million student builder pilot are not apprentices?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I thought was fairly obvious from the name of the program that this scheme is funded under, this is the alternative delivery pilots program. The five different models that are being funded are indeed pilots of alternative delivery models that look at non-traditional approaches for the delivery of training that leads to a final qualification. So it is self-evident that these are trialling different pathways, different approaches. That is exactly what the model is designed to do across the five different programs that are being funded. That is absolutely why we are looking at it. As I told the Senate yesterday, it is because we saw in the period between 2012 and 2013 a 38 per cent reduction in apprenticeship commencements, a 38 per cent decline that has continued to flow through apprenticeship numbers in Australia. We are trialling these different pilot programs in an undertaking to try to ascertain whether there are ways to recover those apprenticeship numbers in the future.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, what qualifications will the student builders receive for the $92,000 price tag? Will the students be eligible to receive a trade certificate?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will take that on notice and provide the senator with the exact qualifications that are in question here.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You're the minister!

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will happily provide the senator with the exact qualifications. These are students who are being enrolled to received qualifications. They will be accredited qualifications under the Australian qualifications framework, as anybody would expect from a registered training organisation such as that being funded.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. A point or order, Senator Cameron?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, thanks. The key question was: will the students be eligible to receive a trade certificate? Fundamentally that is the question and that is what the minister should answer.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister did say up-front that he will take on notice the exact qualification and get back to you. The minister has clearly answered his question with responsibility. Minister, have you concluded your answer?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A final supplementary question, Senator Cameron.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

How can you justify using $1.84 million of taxpayers' money for a program for only 20 participants who will not even be eligible for a trade certificate at the end of it? Was the $1.84 million price tag just another item on the tab paid by the taxpayer to keep the government's most reliable crossbencher happy?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We have the slurring occurring again from those opposite, slurring that is of course completely unjustified when we are trying to tackle a real problem in relation to the apprenticeship decline that happened under their watch. There is a real challenge to come up with new and better ways to ensure the delivery of training and apprenticeships and opportunities for young Australians. Those opposite want to talk about different types of programs that might be funded. The types of programs that really—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Cameron?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes, again on relevance. Given the minister cannot advise the Senate whether these young people will get a trade certificate, given that he does not know what the outcome will be, I have simply asked: is this a program to have kept that crossbencher happy?

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order. That was, basically, repeating the question.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Indeed, the question went much further than that, as well. The reality is those opposite come in here and want to criticise a program that is trying to provide real training places and real opportunities for young Australians into the future, yet they were a government that thought it was okay to fund trade union officials to go out and promote things like the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal. They thought a $220,000 awareness campaign to fund union officials to promote a tribunal like that was a worthwhile use of taxpayers' money. I would rather back training funding for students. (Time expired)