Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Education and Training, Senator Birmingham. I refer to the minister's letter responding to former Senator Day's request for funding of his pet student-builder pilot in which he told the former senator that the pilot could not be funded because 'employers consider a continuing strength of Australian apprenticeships is work-integrated learning' and 'institution based models did not garner wide support from employers or industry groups' and apprenticeships provide 'significant on-the-job experience and training', enabling employers to 'meet their particular needs'. Why did the minister subsequently provide $1.84 million to the pilot when he had already made such a strong case against funding it?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would emphasise firstly to Senator Cameron that he of course has received a bunch of information under documents that I tabled in the Senate. He might want to have a closer look at them to see what are draft letters versus what are signed letters, because of course there is a significant distinction between the two. I would further emphasise that over a period of time further analysis and indeed changes to the proposal were undertaken. In particular, Senator Cameron wants to talk about work integrated learning aspects of such proposals. Under the pilot proposal that is being delivered through this program, I am happy to tell Senator Cameron, students will complete around 2,242 hours in work based training, in work placements, in on-the-job training activities—59 weeks at 38 hours a week during that time. It is very clear that there is a strong element of work integrated learning in the pilot that is being undertaken—work integrated learning that will lead to these students receiving their certificate III in carpentry or their certificate IV in building and construction. It will ensure that they will meet licensing requirements for a builder's licence and registration so that they can go on and be fully participating working tradespeople in the South Australian economy.

It is very clear that the issues and concerns that Senator Cameron identifies are being addressed but also tested as part of a pilot. That is why this is a pilot—to assess exactly how it works, to assess whether it, along with the other four pilots that are being funded, can provide lessons to improve uptake in our apprenticeship system in the future. (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A supplementary question, Senator Cameron.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In the minister's letter he told former Senator Day that the student builder pilot posed a number of challenges, including 'industrial relations issues and employment outcomes for students'. Can the minister advise the Senate what he meant by the industrial relations and employment outcomes challenges posed by the student builder pilot?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Once again I emphasise to Senator Cameron that he should be mindful of whether a letter was a signed letter or a draft letter, in terms of documents that have been released. Senator Cameron should of course also be very mindful of the fact that, as I said before, issues were addressed during the development of this and will continue to be addressed as the project plans are finalised by the deliverer of this grant. We can have absolutely every confidence that as the project is rolled out all of these issues must have been addressed for its successful implementation, because they are the types of conditions that have been put in place, they are the types of terms that have been worked through between the department and the North East Vocational College.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, a final supplementary.

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Does the minister really expect the Senate to believe his significant criticisms of Senator Day's student builder pilot were overcome and that the $1.84 million grant was not just the government keeping their most reliable crossbencher happy?

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Education and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I really expect the Senate will believe that there was a real decline in apprenticeship commencements from 2012 to 2013 of 38 per cent, which occurred because of policy changes instigated by the former Labor government—creating, of course, a significant decline in overall numbers of apprentices, necessitating action to look at alternative ways to get a recovery in place in apprenticeship numbers. That is exactly what we are working to do, to get a recovery in place in terms of leadership numbers. I equally expect the Senate to believe the findings of the ANAO in relation to things such as the $300 million pre-election splurge that those opposite undertook in the Early Years Quality Fund, all of it designed to drive more people into membership of United Voice—a $300 million union membership splurge. Put that alongside other failures of their side, such as their decisions into— (Time expired)