Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Communications, Senator Fifield. Yesterday, the minister told the Senate that the government's promise of a $29.5 billion cap referred to a cap on its equity contribution to the NBN and not a cap on its total contribution. But the Prime Minister's website unequivocally states that Mr Turnbull's NBN only requires 'public funding of $29.5 billion'. Who is correct—you or the Prime Minister?

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Bilyk for her question. It seems we are going to traverse the same ground that we did yesterday, which is that the government's commitment has been an equity cap of $29.5 billion and that remains the case. There are two concepts that those opposite seem to have difficulty differentiating. They are the concept of equity and the concept of a loan. The equity cap was, and remains, $29.5 billion. A loan is entirely different to equity. A loan is something that is repaid. There has always been the need for a loan to NBN. The government looked at the options. NBN received a good indicative credit rating, and NBN could have borrowed on external markets. But the government compared that with what the government would be able to borrow at, and we made the entirely reasonable, sensible and rational decision to do that which would be at a lower cost to taxpayers. That was an entirely appropriate thing to do. What I do wonder, and what I have not heard from those opposite is: are they proposing a different approach? What is the approach that the Australian Labor Party would be putting forward? Do the Australian Labor Party think that we should have taken a different approach? Do the Australian Labor Party think the government should have taken a different decision? We have not heard from the Australian Labor Party in relation to that. What the government has said has been consistent, and what we have done matches that.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Bilyk, a supplementary question.

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I refer to the Minister for Finance, who yesterday told the Senate that the best deal for taxpayers was 'for the government to provide a loan on commercial terms to NBN'. Can the minister confirm the market was only willing to provide a loan to the NBN on terms that would be uncommercial to NBN?

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, that is not correct. As I have indicated and as the finance minister has indicated, the indicative credit ratings that NBN received were good. NBN was absolutely and entirely in a position to borrow on external markets, but—

Senator Wong interjecting—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Penny, be quiet!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

it is simply a fact that government can borrow at better rates. That is something that I think everyone here knows. Government is in that position—that is not a surprise. So, when we looked at the options before us, we decided that we would pursue the option which was a lower cost to taxpayers.

Senator Wong interjecting—

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Penny! Penny, be quiet!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is in no way a reflection on NBN, it is in no way a reflection on the credit rating that NBN received and it is in no way a reflection on NBN's capacity to raise money on external markets.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Bilyk, a final supplementary question.

Catryna Bilyk (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Given that the market would not give NBN a loan it could afford and that the NBN had to be bailed out with $19.5 billion in taxpayer-backed loans, isn't it clear Mr Turnbull's second-rate copper-dominated NBN is uncommercial and unviable?

Fiona Nash (NSW, National Party, Deputy Leader of the Nationals) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It was your mess that we had to clean up.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yours is going to cost more and it is copper! Brilliant! What a brilliant strategy!

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Penny! Penny, quiet! Quiet, Penny!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, on both sides!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I have said—

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Point of order.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I haven't said a word!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

A point of order, Senator Cameron?

Doug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Macdonald continually interjects and is continually calling Senator Wong 'Penny'. You must have heard it. He must stop that.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! On the point of order, Senator Macdonald?

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong has been so good in the last few weeks, but she is breaking out as it gets close to Christmas!

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There is no point of order.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I was just trying to help you keep her quiet, not shouting through all of question time.

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Macdonald! Thank you, Senator Cameron; that is a timely reminder for all senators not to interject during question time. One can only hope that you will not. Minister, you have the call.

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

NBN's business case is strong. NBN received strong indicative credit ratings. The government has taken an entirely prudent and appropriate approach. Can I remind colleagues, again, where the NBN is today compared to where the NBN was in 2013.

Opposition senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, on my left!

Mitch Fifield (Victoria, Liberal Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The NBN, under those opposite, was a failed project—$6½ billion spent by those opposite and only 51,000 paying customers. Today, the NBN is available to in excess of three million Australians. We will complete this six to eight years ahead of you.